well that sux, now a new question

how do i beef up my outlets?
in the house that is
kevan : <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

in a word... you don't. you would have to run new romex (ie wire) rated for the amperage you wanna carry. that would most likely require some demo'ing of walls depending on how your home is setup. possibly replace each outlet with ones rated to handle 20 or 25 amp load (your std wall outlet is only 15amp). also upgrade the breaker to match.... In other words, the whole system works together, and you can only carry (safely) as much load as your weakest link. thats why you can't just pop in a higher breaker without considering the existing wiring, etc.

In summery, you would pay an electrican a far amount of money to do this. In most cases, it would be far cheaper to have a new circuit run to carry the load you need than to try and bring an existing one up to the task.

-Rob

I can attest to this, the apartment building I am remodeling slowly was quoted out at $20K to rewire all 4 units, the main areas, install a 220V for a dryer in the basement, and run new service with a new service panel. That sounds like a lot, but after doing 2 of the units ourselves(with a certified electrictian to check off and deal with permits) It is not that much. To run wire, depending on the home can require a lot of demo. On the first unit we tried to fish the wire, but with old lathe and plaster walls, that is a very difficult. The second one we learned it was easier to just gut the wall, run the wire and resheetrock.

Rob hit it on the head, the upgrade to an outlet won't cut it, you have to make sure the wire is up to par, I know to get passed off you have to use a minimum of 14/3 wire for 15amp, and 12/3 for 20 amp. Now, 12/3 can feed a 30amp and be fine, as long as it has only one outlet on it. That is what we had to do to run an electric heater to the bedroom. It is a standard heater, but they did require we run a seperate circuit and 30amp breaker to feed one outlet.

Sorry to break it to you Kevan, but it sounds like, until you check out what you have in the house, you may want to stay away from buying a welder. You may not have the capacity for it. Being a landlord, I can tell you most will not want you welding in the garage, let alone running new wires.

Steve

I'll throw another option out there... don't forget there are portable options. I wouldn't generally recommend such as a primary welder, but if your location doesn't allow for anything else, there are alternatives...

gas power'd ARC welders. you can get one for about $1k, and though its about $700 more than the electric version, you'd eliminate all the hassle of upgrading wiring and having to run all this by your landlord. plus you'd get the added benefit of having a generator (not sure if this is something you could make use of or not).



and i've used one of these before:



these work good and are portable and nice to have out on the trail even. With enough batteries (2 or maybe even 3), you can easily MIG weld 1/4" and beyond which should be plenty good for general 4x4 fabrication. only downside is your duty cycle is going to be depending on your vehicle's charging system. IIRC, they run about $600.

-Rob

You forgot to mention that you will also be the most popular guy in moab too <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I dunno, at that price I would might look at other options. On board welders are fairly simply units. Its basically just a fairly high amperage alternator. It saved our bacon on the last moab trip. We broke a spring hanger and had a great time welding it back up on the trail.

These units run like 300 bucks or so. The difficult part would be finding space under the hood for it. You will also need to install a hand throttle as well so that you can moderate the amperage of the welder without using a brick or something. Hand throttles are just cool anyway.

I would still run the cord from the dryer if it were me, at least for starters, it can be very annoying but at least you get started. Building a garage is just like building a vehicle if you don't do it piece meal then it doesnt happen. I started doing the dryer cord, after which we ran the outlet to the garage. Would I run from the dryer again?? Yep! Was it annoying to run back and forth to the breaker ?? Yep, but not nearly bad enough to stop welding.

I suppose we are all entitled to our own opinions of course. And I by no means have a desire to start a flame war. But I would certainly encourage that you get the welder first, necessity is the mother of invention. If you have to learn how to wire 220 in the process, good for you, you are learning something new! Its more fun to be a jack of all trades anyway.

Good luck Kev.

I don't recommend that ANYONE go out and spend $500 on a dedicated outlet for a welder... But then again, that's cause I know a lot of people. Maybe 3 or 4 off the top of my head that are licensed electricians -- the same 3 or 4 that would gladly come over and run an outlet for me and/or show me how it's done for the price of dinner and a coupla beers. I've run about 4 of these myself and it's pretty easy and straight forward. In fact, I'd MUCH rather deal with 220 than 110... But nonetheless, without a death wish like me, you'd be much better off bringing a professional in than doing it yourself -- especially talking about something that can easily kill you when you mess it up. But that being said, only rich people and hermits need to pay $500 for this outlet -- the rest of us with no money and lots of friends can probably find someone with the knowledge and expertise to take care of it for you for the price of a friend...

HTH,
Chris
P.S. You *are* probably looking at about $100 to $150 in parts and supplies to get this done, but the labor can probably be found for free....

What about a gas welder? In "Welder's Handbook" the author states that if he could have only one welder for his shop, it would be a gas welder with a couple different tips. You can't go wrong on the price either: $150 - $200 for a gas kit in addition to the cost of the tanks.

I really don't have a problem with the dryer cord solution... assuming it is safe. However, in a public forum, we should be careful about blanket statements. Seeing as *most* residentail dryer outlets are only rated at 30amp and *most* 220v welders have an input rated several amps higher than that, i would be very careful about recommending this. Sure, if you check the specs of the welder and compair it to your dryer and it turns out ok, i think this is a great and easy solution.

But if you blindly unplug your dryer in favor for your welder, you are asking for trouble (not only trouble, but a safety hazard for your home and those in it)... it doesn't matter if its a temporarily solution or not.

-Rob

I assume you mean an oxy-acteleye setup... Besides having a little steeper learning curve than Mig or even Arc, the biggest drawback for us (4wheelers) is going to be lack of penetration. Gas works great for body or exhaust work, but when you're routinely dealing with 1/4" and thicker, you'll want better penetration.

sure the torch and regulators are only about $150-200, but thanks will cost you at least $400-500 empty. sure you can lease them and costs are not as bad, but if you compair outright purchase, you can easily have a nice MIG machine for the cost.

-Rob