Still curious about what's inadequate about the Tundra?
What doesn't it do that a 150, 1500, Titan can do?
What makes a "full size" in your opinion?

Toyota (Japanese Automakers included) does not make trucks like the US makers do. We know that, right?
You see, they design the trucks to spec. If its a 1/2 ton, its not going to carry more. Where as a Ford/Dodge/GM will carry more. Most Fullsized pickup truck owners report they have always overloaded their trucks every now and then.
Toyota sees the market for "fullsized" as a 40-something, male, with income over $50K. The bed is used for contracting (toolboxes and maybe ladder rack), small jobs and light-duty towing.
True, the T100 was (IMHO is) underpowered and inadequate. Now, don't start gettin feathers rustled- I still have my T. (T stands for turtle...green and slow). But it starts when I turn the key. Has gotten me home from long trips.

So, yes, it would be nice if Toyota made a Heavy-Duty series. It lacks this niche and I feel, its missed the mark. The Titan, I tested it, and its built cheaply...as are all Nissans. Give me a GM 2500 or F250 anyday. Diesel...well I see the $fuel is .20 cents more gallon here than premium.

Anyway, if you want a truck for towing, hauling, beating, can write off for work and not use for taking the significant other out, meeting clients, and reliable...get a Dodge, a Ford or GM. If you want reliability, are not a big person (burly or tall), want good fuel mileage but not tow, or tow a light trailer or small boat/camper...then the Tundra or Titan is for you.

(Here is a simple test, crawl under each one and check out the gauge of steel, the fastener grades, the layout of suspension...the functions of features...then you decide..)

I can agree with Scott that I cannot wait for Toyota to get its ass in gear and put out a diesel-electric hybrid, with torque out the 500+ range, 29mpg and 0-60 in under 8 secs. I truly feel Toyota missed the boat not offering an HD series. Actually, when Toyota postured not to name the Tundra a T150 because Ford intimidated them...that is when I decided its truly a Toy.

I apologize to anyone on the list for the content. Basically, I will never own another Toyota. This T100 is the last. After its run its life, I'm looking at Ford or GM. And I will likely, look back and see how good it was to have had a reliable truck for 9+ years...(7/95-

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

In this you are quite right! And I'm ever thankful for that fact and will never own anything but a Toyota truck.


Here is where I humbly disagree with you. My feathers aren't rustled, I just want facts thrown out there. Lets take my 1998 Toyota T100 and put it up next to a Ford F150 4x4 Supercab. This particular Ford came with the 4.6L V-8 SOHC. My T100 was rated to have a payload of 1,960lbs whereas the F150 was rated to hold 1,520lbs. Hmmm... seems like the T100 is plenty adequate. In fact, I'd sooner overload my T100 and trust it than an F150. I overloaded my previous T with about 2500lbs of steel construction material and when I unloaded, she rose right back off the bumpstops without a problem (did I mention that I drove 500 miles with it loaded like that?). My previous boss had an F150 that he'd overloaded with quarry stone and he's never been able to get a true alignment since (don't ask me the correlation, he just indicated that was the only cause he could figure out).
One other thing... towing weight. The T100 was rated for 5,000lbs whereas the F150 was rated for only, get this, 1,700lbs. I kid you not! That's significant!!!


And isn't that the point anyway? Did you really buy your pick-up truck for the 0-60 time? I would've gone with a Supra if that were my goal.


Toyota and Nissan haven't been eroding domestic truck share by offering the same product, they've done it by offering a more sensible product in my estimation. If you want 0-60, go ahead and get yourself a Hemi, but if you want payload a V8 Tundra is your leader. The Hemi beats on towing by a slim margin, not nearly large enough to make it the clear winner (especially since we are talking about 4x4 models and Toyota makes theirs more off-road friendly than Dodge).

If you want size, if you want speed, then buy the a domestic. However, if you want quality, then buy Toyota. The great thing is, you don't have to sacrifice much in capabilities to get a lot better quality. In fact, the only thing I see sacrificed by going Toyota is the ostentatiousness of large Domestics.

Now, for those of you with a need for F250, F350, 2500, 3500 series needs, I say be patient (I recognize Toyota doesn't yet compete in this arena). Toyota is building/has built a plant in Texas right now that won't be building your normal Tundra. Also, have you noticed that the new Tacoma is the size of a T100? I wonder if the Tundra will have such a size increase in 2006? Its a good bet from what I've been hearing.

Uzombie, I didn't mean this post to pick on you. You just provided some fodder for my rant. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It's your choice Joel. QC at Toyota has declined since many QC workers moved to the Lexus division. Ofcourse, if Lexus were to release a FullSized Truck...




Without a Ford booklet in front of me...I would guess that the 1,700lbs was tongue, and not GVWR. Also, if its a supercab, shortbed, its capacity is reduced over 8' or reg cab. Besides, I'm talking HD trucks, not the 150 series.
And for payload, I had a palette of flooring (400qsqft) that weighed 1500lbs and HALF would sag not only my springs, (Alcans that are rated higher than stock) but my tires were hitting metal. Sorry, but if you are driving with payload hitting bumpstops, that is more than risky. Also, the damage to bearings and ujoints will be inevitable. Ever wonder about the cracked axle housings?


Again, you are talking Pro-Toyota. The Supra is DISCONTINUED because Toyota couldn't make it cheap nor more powerful (Vette, mustang, Viper.. all competition and faster and liekly cheaper). And 0-60 is important now that entrance ramps need 65mph merge speeds (it was 55mph when I bought truck...now 65mph) Why do you think the Tundra has a V8? Why is it that Toyota advertises "We got it right this time!" with the Tundra? If that is not blatant admission of a problem, I don't know what is. Be glad you have the 1998 T100...atleast you can S/C if you want.


Now why would I buy a product who's name means "to avoid" ?
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Besides, anyone that tows with a new diesel will tell you "I never even know I am pulling the trailer!" HEMI is just a sales gimmick about the "hemisperical" head over the piston. What was old is new again...and look at Chevy with the straight motors in the colorados...Old is new.



Yes, you did mean to, otherwise you wouldn't have! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" />

But hey, this is Mr SuperPicky speaking and frankly, you can tell me till you are Toyota Blue in the face how much better your truck is. But as of 1992, its been a downer experience for me and Toyotas. I've owned a 4runner (my best Toyota IMHO), a LandCruiser (previous owner didn't take care of it and I regret flipping it..endover), a Corolla (tailights leaked, underpowered, built for short people), T100 (cost of ownership now negative).

Hey, I would love to sit down with a Toyota engineer and talk about the positives and negatives with a new truck design. But time is money and I'd rather spend it on something I fit in, I can stomp on it to get out of trouble, I can make $ with it, I can dump a ton in the back and it not flinch, and eventually use it to tow a tandem with loader on back. Show me a T100 pulling a (small) loader and I'll give you $2. And up a hill, and for 200 miles, and without a puff of smoke... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />

And get this, the T100 didn't turn over easily this morning. I say its a sign of whats to come...or that she didn't like my comments...cough. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif" alt="" />

I can say that I lived in Japan for a year and half back in 95 and 96. The streets are narrow and small. The gas is very exspencive. I was in the Navy..so, I had to get my D.L. as a duty driver. Not sure if I would want a full size truck. If I was Toyota I would question that thought. It would please the Americans But in their Country...Everyone rides bikes,motor bikes and very small cars. I know here in Texas, San Antonio...They have started on a Toyota Plant. Maybe they will belt out the "full size truck". But, then again....that is just my thoughts and what I have seen over in japan. I perfer my 80 toy...Simple, clean and A STRONG.!!

Agreed, QC has gone down at Toyota. Partially due to diversion of QC staff while the other part is due to American production facilities. Sorry, we just can't build it like the Japanese it seems.

I thought for sure that the 1700lbs was tongue weight as well, and it very well may be. But the places I researched the old models at indicated those numbers were direct comparison!

I didn't choose to haul that much steel in my bed, I was strongly encouraged to by my boss at my former job. Bad idea, yes. Risky, yes. Was I young, foolish, and in my first real job, yes.

Supra could take a same year vette, mustang, etc. Not the viper though... its a breed apart. Supra was so over-engineered and production costs were high... thus cost was high (though not more expensive than a vette). Toyota couldn't afford to keep offering this car. Agreed.

Hemi = sales gimmick... agreed. I said this more in reference to previous post. Diesel has amazing torque... agreed. I sure wish Hino would get their emissions under control to meet US standards so they could pop those engines in the Tundra/Tacoma/LC/etc. They do in every other country!

Okay, you're right. I did mean to pick on you! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" />
What I meant is that I didn't mean to cause you offense. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

Explain loader to me... I may have a picture for you. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

And if you don't want to keep your T100, sell me your TJM extra bumper parts to make mine winchable!

Like a Kioti (Kubota knockoff) tractor/loader. (looking for $2 to send...) <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif" alt="" />

I know you mean no offense, nor do I. I honestly wish that Toyota WOULD now offer an 8' bed (or 6.5' with 1.5' sheet space under the cab so tailgate could be closed) with extracab and 300HP/350ftlbtq truck that has a 5sp man and HD suspension (front SAS with coilovers) so one could plow, tow, haul or just have a nice, "reliable" truck.

I hate how the Chevy's look (interior and exterior). It's extremely dated. And Dodge, well, the massive pillar arm bothered me in 95. And still does. Ford F250 is ok, but their diesel (Powerstroke 6.0) is still very loud. The Duramax (isuzu/GM) is quieter but in an ugly truck.

If Toyota sold a turbo-diesel, 4x4, extended cab, sas, HD rated, tows 6ton limit, 2ton bed cap, with leather interior and leg room (T100 headroom is fine) and 0-60 in reasonable time (under 14secs), I'd own one right now. First model year or not. Oh, and the Toyota would have "guaranteed" aftermarket support in numbers. (bumpers, lifts, upgrades, utility options...) <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I must be dreaming...nope, she is still in California... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

cummins 600 folks. dodge does that with 5.9L. the hino that is anywhere close is an 8 liter. hello??

i am looking at a 2005 dodge 4x4 slt 2500 quad cab short bed cummins 6 speed. nothing toyota will make is going to be in that league anytime in the next 4 years and even then, doubtful. just suck it up and reliaze if you want real towing power, you need american iron. i'd love a toyota, but i am not going to buy something that is their first attempt either. hell, they had a 9" rear axle with full floater, elocker and disks in teh cruiser and they couldn't figure out how to get it into a tundra, t100, or sequoia. how lame is that?

I ought to jump in here too.... I have a couple of CAT Scales certified slips from this summer (Gov. wanted them so they could compensate us from moving).. can't scan, but I'll take digi pictures if needed:

Truck unloaded - 4520
Trailer unloaded - 800

Truck loaded - 5900
Trailer loaded - 3620

So, the bed/truck weight is slightly off due to the tunge weight of the trailer, but I still hauled a good 5000 lbs from Atlanta, GA, north to Minnesota, west to Wyoming and Montana, then south to Arizona. A/C on the whole time, cruise set to 75 for the vast majort of the distance and no oil burned in nearly 5k miles (was still at the full mark when I changed it out here). Does that qualify me for the $2? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I had Zero issues merging onto interstates at 60~65mph Unless I was headed uphill... then I'd be in the mid 50's somewhere. With an unloaded truck, I'm ALWAYS using the brakes to slow down for the vehiles that's infront of me.. or to come back down to a legal speed ~ including uphill. There was, and is, no unsual handling and the truck bed came right back to normal once I unloaded (this was a 5~6 week, almost 4k mile trip where the vehicle was Never unloaded). Stock everything outside of a K&N filter and manual hubs... And it's comfortable for me, even at 6'4" and 280lbs... while the leg room could use another couple inches, it's a far cry from any other 'mid sized' truck, and Some US full sized trucks (none current, but I've tried to shoehorn myself into every make and most every model since the mid-80's).

I will, at some point in time, be hauling a bigger trailer with a lot more weight and would like a diesel to do the work. Hopefully the Toyota/Hino hybrid will be out by then and I can buy that... if not, it'll certainly NOT be a Ford I buy (used a F350 for one job, it was broken more often than working in the first year we tried to use it), and it'll NOT be a Dodge (father-in-law had a couple for his well drilling company and they were slightly better than the Ford in terms of general reliability, but the repairs bills when broken made the costs even and the fit/finish sucked IMHO). And I, personally, have had a Terrible track record with all manor of US made vehicles... not a single one of them even made it to 100k miles, several stopped well short.

So, while the market for trucks has no ringers at the moment, the Toyotas are pretty much the best thing going for the average consumer who's looking for lighter duty service (towing up to 5k lbs). Above that, it's personal choice on the Diesels....

PM me and I'll get you the address for the $2.... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

ok, i've got to jump in on this. I would have bought a tundra instead of a T100 except for one reason: Toyota failed to offer the v8 with a manual transmission!!!

Really, I hope toyota comes out with some freakishly powerful diesel that will blow the doors off anything Dodge/GM/Ford makes, but like others have said that's somewhat unlikely anytime soon.

Frankly, I'd like a new cummins with the six speed after seeing a coworker pull a double axle trailer loaded with tools and steel up a steep gravel road in first gear without touching the gas. Toyota's got their hands full in order to match something like that.