</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Originally posted by adam:
<strong>It's the same; no beefier.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">This does not make any sense to me... Why would the (almost) "Full Size" T-100 have the same suspension components as a mini-truck? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Do the engineers really believe that this part is strong enough for the T-100? Or are they just blind to the fact that it sux, even with stock tires?

I would believe that T-100 owners have many more problems out of this part, as I have replaced mine once, rebuilt it twice, and need to do something again... All in the last five years <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> !

***BRAINSTORM MODE ON***

Has anyone come up with an alternative, such as brass bushings instead of plastic? I would be willing to pay for this peace of mind... But on the other hand, would it be even more prone to bending? Maybe the plastic was put in there as sort of a "fuse," made to break before the arm gets bent. This would create more profitable rebuilding, as only the bushings would need replacement 95% of the time. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe the shaft was thought to be strong enough, and the plastic bushing was just cheaper from the vendor? Or maybe it was designed to fail from the start, so we would have to replace it whenever we went to the alignment shop, boosting the economy with Idler Arm sales, alignments, and tire sales? Anyone have any input?

***BRAINSTORM MODE OFF***

Ouch... That was too much thinking... Brain hurts now. <img border="0" alt="[Nerd]" title="" src="graemlins/nerd.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Originally posted by DRTDEVL:
<strong>This does not make any sense to me... Why would the (almost) "Full Size" T-100 have the same suspension components as a mini-truck? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Do the engineers really believe that this part is strong enough for the T-100? Or are they just blind to the fact that it sux, even with stock tires?

I would believe that T-100 owners have many more problems out of this part, as I have replaced mine once, rebuilt it twice, and need to do something again... All in the last five years <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> !

***BRAINSTORM MODE ON***

Has anyone come up with an alternative, such as brass bushings instead of plastic? I would be willing to pay for this peace of mind... But on the other hand, would it be even more prone to bending? Maybe the plastic was put in there as sort of a "fuse," made to break before the arm gets bent. This would create more profitable rebuilding, as only the bushings would need replacement 95% of the time. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe the shaft was thought to be strong enough, and the plastic bushing was just cheaper from the vendor? Or maybe it was designed to fail from the start, so we would have to replace it whenever we went to the alignment shop, boosting the economy with Idler Arm sales, alignments, and tire sales? Anyone have any input?

***BRAINSTORM MODE OFF***

Ouch... That was too much thinking... Brain hurts now. <img border="0" alt="[Nerd]" title="" src="graemlins/nerd.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Mostly I think it's just that no one (dealer-wise) expects 4x4s to get used off road. The idler arm is fine as long as you don't wheel the rig. So when they go off the lot to the first owners who think "Ooooooo shiny new truck; I'm gonna keep this nice," the idler arm probably lasts the life of their ownership or they have to replace it just once.

Then the vehicle becomes used. Original owner wants something shiny again so sells the now used rig to someone like us, and we find out just how little the system will hold up to.

The bushings are not all of the problem. I personally don't think the bushing rebuild does all that much good. I do seem to remember seeing a writeup using brass bushings instead of poly/rubber. Maybe that would make for a more effective rebuild. The other piece that makes the idler arm a wear item is the ball and stud. Once that goes loose, you can put new bushings in all you want, but it's not ever going to be as responsive as new.

As for the mini vs T front ends, the T100 is just wider. As for weight, ErikB posted at one point that the difference is only a couple hundred pounds, so the same parts should hold up just as well on either. I've wheeled mine since new (7 years) and have been through 2 rebuilds and the original +2 more arms (the third is the one under it now).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Originally posted by DRTDEVL:
<strong>Has anyone come up with an alternative, such as brass bushings instead of plastic? I would be willing to pay for this peace of mind... Anyone have any input?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial, Helv, Helvetica, Sans">Dude...read up 9 posts above re: Drew Persson's design for a new arm. Drew used to sell replacement oilite bronze bushings for the factory arm.

http://www.4x4wire.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=009968

i'm with adam. i ordered the bushings and seal but the ball/stud was more worn out. so i replaced the whole idler. then replaced the tie-rods too, since those balls were shot. steering stabilizer, too. eyeballed the alignment, drove to a shop, had the toe adjusted, and drives like a champ. whilei was in there, i added zerks to the ball joints and lubed them up, too.

anyway, my point is: if you need to replace the bushings, the ball/stud is probably worn, too and you probably should just replace the whole idler.