While I am rebuilding my 22r I am looking towards the future and thinking about an engine swap. My last engine had 94mm forged pistons, LC engineering stage 2 cam, ported big valve 20r head, weber 38, etc. When the piston burnt it messed the block up which was bored to the max already. I have decided to rebuild the new motor with stock pistons and save the money for an engine swap. Seems like better power for the money. It looks like the most obvious choices are 3.8 buick, 4.3 vortec, 350 chevy or 5.0 liter ford. Which one gives the best bang for the buck? Seems like the ford motor might fit a little better than the 350. Any big drawbacks or advantages to one engine choice over the others?

Well none of the swaps are going to be easy or cheap. With a 20R I am assuming that you have a very early truck, so you probably have an L series transmission too. I would at least replace it with a W or R series tranny, but it would probably be better to use a domestic transmission that goes with the motor. Jay K has a lot of good swap info on his website. I like the 4.3L swap because they fit well, are lighter than the V8s, and make good torque.

Another option is to use a Toyota motor, such as the 5M or 7M motor from a Supra (you would probably have fitment problems since these are long inline six cylinders) or a 3.4L V6 from a Tacoma. Or if you want to have a lot of work buy a truck that already has a motor swap, like Brian Gallus's pickup.

he's got a 22R with a 20R head on it harry <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

i'll go over some options:

5M/6M/7M variants:
pros - bolts to 22R engine mounts and W/G series trannies with the stock bellhousing, keeps it all toyota, lots of power and flat, smooth powerband
cons - inline 6 engine, so it's long. exhaust is on the wrong side and must be re-routed. but it's a reasonably popular swap

chevy 4.3:
pros - cheap, easy to find, no shortage of power, lots of SBC parts interchange
cons - much heavier than 22R or buick motor, distributor in rear, longer/wider than buick

buick 3.8(231):
pros - reasonably light, front mounted distributor, decent aftermarket support(though its kind of fallen by the wayside since everybody wants the bigger 4.3 now)
cons - i've heard they run hot, have some head gasket issues. the newest RWD block(unless you buy a spiffy $3k aluminum TA race block) is about 15 years old. expensive to use a manual tranny unless you can score something like an old monza bellhousing and flywheel

ford 302:
pros - 100lbs lighter than SBC, narrower and shorter than SBC, front mounted distributor, won't necessarily chew up your drivetrain right off the bat
cons - it's still a v8 so it's a tight fit, can't use the strong R series tranny so you'd need a T18, NP435 or a slushbox

I for one cannot believe that thing hasn't FLOWN out of Brian's garage. 8K??? For pity's sake, its debugged and DONE. I know what I'd do if a domestic swap was in my plans... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

This is by far the most important sentence of the entire discussion... I have over $4k into my 4.3 swap - not including transmission or tcase changes...



Thanks for the plug, Harry!

My take on engine swaps is different than most people. I've owned a 22r/e wheeling truck, I've owned a 3.8 buick, I've owned a 4.3 TBI (non vortec), I've owned 3.0, 3.4 and 4.7 Toyotas...

I love 22re's. I love 3.0's. I love 3.4's. I HATE the 3.8 Buick. I'm not a fan of the 4.3 either. Why? Because I didn't consider what I DO LIKE before I did the swap.

I do like EFI
I do like engines that are smooth
I like engines that can rev to 5500rpms
I like simple engines
I like Toyota engines...


Unless you have a need to go big on power - 200+ - I'd skip all of the options already mentioned above and go with a 2.7 Taco 3rz. Put a W series tranny behind it for reliability, get the same power as a 3.0 and mileage of a 22re... Perfect early Toyota engine, in my opinion. Marlin Crawler is rumored to be coming out with a swap kit - if Mike ever has time to document it all and start building parts.. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I actually have to qualify the "debugged and DONE" statement, Bill. These things are NEVER done... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And it needs the speedo gears in the tcase and a couple of other very minor things... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But basically, it's debugged and works wonderfully. Makes me wonder why I'm selling the derned thing...

sorry to high jack this thread but thats beautiful truck bkg. i wish i lived in minnesota and had 8k, lol.

i personally would just keep it simple and build a bad ass 22re or 3.0. i love my 3.0. there great motors if you do the right work to them.

I second Bk's comment about not being cheap. Motor swaps are always pricey......unless you just happen to have all the parts on hand and for free. My 3.4L cost $4,500.
I bet it could be pulled off (and still done right) for around $3,000 though. I went a little overboard and replaced a lot of stuff.....clutch, timing belt, W/P, alternator and spared no expence when I was buying parts.....so it all costed me a little. But, I've got no problems, the whole thing went rather smootly and I LOVE the power.

I'm just starting my swap now, hoping to do it for under $2,000cdn. It will always be a work in progress, plan on replacing stuff as funds rebuild. I bought a full drive train and running gear for $700, 350 4bbl, sm465, and np 205. Going to reuse alot of parts till I can replace with better, ie the exhaust that was on the Jimmy will go on. Making my own motor mounts and doing all the work myself or with help of friends. Not stupid though going to have the drive shafts done at a shop. Could do them but why risk it for the small amount of money.

I would love to see any links that anyone has one a 350 swap, or even any swap. I've been reading everyone I can, learn from their experince.

Thanks

I like a little more power than the 22RE that I had. I just installed a 1991 5.0 HO/SEFI with the AOD in my '85. It did take a bunch of fab but it was well worth it. It took me a little over a month to finish. The hardest part was setting up the VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor). I gets over 16 mpg also. I like chevy's too but I didn't want a 350. I thought that would be too much. To me there is nothing better than hearing V8 power.

Bill