well i'll start off and say that i don't really know much about auto trannys, so i may be way off. but i went to start pulling my trans today because i assume i had a bad pump because it will not move and is not pumping fluid. (89 trooper 2.6 auto) so the instructions say pull the starter and remove the torque converter to drive plate bolts, so i pulled the starter out but there were no bolts in the torque converter, just holes?? am i missing something or did i just find my problem? i spun the motor over and there are no bolts in site, and the torque converter sits still while the motor is spinning. my theory is that its not getting power from the motor, thus not spinning the torque converter, so thats why theres no fluid pumping as well. i've got pics of the hole to show what i'm talking about. i've also got a pic of the small bolt i found in the window on the bottom of bellhousing. so do i just need to bolt that thing on and go with it? heres the link to the pics


Thanks
http://community.webshots.com/photo/124372714/259812486raTsuZ

i know squat about autos, but it looks like a bolt would go there

It looks like you found your problem, although a little odd that you lost all of your bolts. If the engine wasn't spinning the pump then you had no pressure. You need to get bolts that are the same grade and length to replace your missing ones. You'll probably have to rotate the flywheel a bunch of times to get the holes in the right place as I think it will only bolt together in one position.
Be sure to use thread lock on each bolt and you should be back in business. Be sure to check your tranny fluid level as soon as you get it going. Good luck! I had two bolts come out in a car once and it sounded very loud and much like engine damage as they were rattling around the bellhousing.

you said i'd have to rotate the flywheel to get them to line up, but how can i rotate the torque converter to get it to line up? i might be able to get one in so i could use that to rotate it, but i'm not possitive. yeah it seems really weird to me as well that all of the bolts would have come out, maybe that was the knocking sound i heard and the head just happened to crack at the same time, who knows
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
Eric

HEY ERIC, YOU DO HAVE A PROBLEM, THERE ARE SUPPOSSED TO BE 6 BOLTS HOLDING THAT DRIVE PLATE TO THE TORQUE CONVERTOR, AND YOU ONLY FOUND ONE ,,WHATEVER YOU DO DON,T START THE ENG WITH ALL OF THE NEW BOLTS IN PLACE UNTILL YOU FIND OUT FOR SURE WHERE THE OTHER 5 ARE , IF THE GOT IN BEHIND THE CONVERTOR , YOU GOTTA GET EM OUT OR THEY COULD LODGE BETWEEN THE CONVERTOR AND THE BELLHOUSING WHEN THE ENG IS RUNNING AND IT WILL SPLIT THE CASE , THOSE ARE 8MM DIA BY 1.25 THREAD AND ARE FLANGE HEAD BOLTS ABOUT 12-14 MM LONG THEY ARE VERY SHORT , FROM THE LOOKS OF THE PIX THE HOLE IS LARGER THAN SUPPOSSED TO BE MAYBE FROM WOBBLING , ROTATE THE ENG AND CHECK THE AREA AROUND THE BOLT HOLES FOR CRACKS , ON ALL 6 HOLES, BEFORE YOU PUT IN THE NEW BOLTS THEY MAY BE HARD TO SEE , ALL 6 HOLES ARE CONCENTRIC SO WHEN YOU GET ONE LINED UP , SPIN IT TO THE NEXT AND THEN SCREW IN THE NEXT ONE FINGER TIGHT, AND WHEN YOU GET THEM ALL IN TORQUE THEM CORRECTLY, THEY CAN BE A PAIN TO GET IN AS THEY ARE CLOSE TO THE STARTER HOLE INSIDE EDGE, I USE A 1/4 INCH DRIVE SET TO GET THEM STARTED , MAIN THING IS TO FIND THE OLD BOLTS OR AT LEAST FIND THAT THEY ARE NOT IN THE BELL HOUSING , IF YOU ARE CAREFULL YOU CAN USE A 2 INCH HOLE SAW AND CUT A HOLE IN THE BOTTOM OF THE BELLHOUSING RIGHT IN THE CENTER AND ABOUT 2 INCHES BACK FROM THE FRONT EDGE OF THE BELLHOUSING AND REACH UP IN SIDE WITH A MAGNET ,AND CHECK FOR THE OLD BOLTS AND PUT A RUBBER PLUG IN THE HOLE , THE NEWER ONES ARE ALL READY THIS WAY JERRY

thanks for the help Jerry. Have you ever heard of this happening before? it seems very odd to me. DO you think i have another problem that caused this? here is a pic of the one bolt i found, i hope i can find the rest without pulling the whole thing out...

http://community.webshots.com/photo/124372714/259812580lhqTvq

My bet is that when you pull the tranny, you'll find a few sheared sets of threads in the torque converter bosses. If you lose a few of the bolts (which make a godawful racket as they bounce around inside, generally), that can be enough to let the assembly start to vibrate, which can back out the fasteners or even fatigue and shear the remaining fasteners. By the looks of that one hole, the fastener that used to live there had been wiggling in the bore for some time. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Pull it apart, you need to check the torque converter and ESPECIALLY the flexplate for cracks... if it vibrated its way apart, there may be collateral damage. Clean everything up really well and look for cracks...

Randii

Eric



Not as odd as some may think. I've had bolts come out of the converters (not all of them though) on two GM trucks I've owned. First was an 89 full size jimmy with a 350/700R4 combo and the second was a 91 p/u 454/4L80E combo. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/angry.gif" alt="" />

Jerry, i tried you trick on cutting a hole in the bellhousing but i am only able to get in between the flexplate and the converter, not behind the converter. so far i have found no other bolts and i have not found any cracks in anything.

Do i need to cut another hole further back to get behind the converter, or is in between the flex plate and converter where i need to be looking? i'll put a pic up of were the hole is shortly. here is the pick, should i make another hole where my finger is?
http://community.webshots.com/photo/124372714/260449459uutoJR

HEY ERIC , PROBABLY DON,T NEED TO CUT ANOTHER HOLE , THE BOLTS OR THE HEADS IF ANY SHOULD BE RIGHT THERE WHERE THE HOLE IS, ONE QUESTION MAY CLEAR ALL THIS UP ON THE BOLTS AND WHERE THEY WENT, WAS THE LITTLE DUST SHIELD STILL ON THE FRONT EDGE OF THE TRANS OR HAD IT BEEN REMOVED A LONG TIME AGO , IF IT IS GONE SO ARE THE BOLTS , THEY WOULD HAVE FELL OUT THE FRONT EDGE OF THE BELLHOUSING , BUT DO LIKE RANDI SUGGESTTED ALSO CHECK THE LUGS ON THE CONVERTOR TO SEE IF ANY OF THE BOLTS MAY BE STILL IN THERE WITH OUT THEIR HEADS , FROM THE LOOKS OF THE BOLT HOLES IT HAS BEEN WALKING BACK AND FORTH FOR A WHILE , I THINK IF I COULDN,T FIND ANY THING ELSE I WOULD PUT THE CORRECT BOLTS IN AND START IT UP AND SEE IF ANY ABNORMAL NOISE COMES FROM THE TRANS AREA , IF SO SHUT IT DOWN IMMEDIATELY AND GO AHEAD AND PULL THE TRANS , YOU MAY JUST LUCK OUT AND HAVE NO SERIOUS PROBLEM, ONE LITTLE TIP BY THE WAY ,,YOU HIT THE SPOT DEAD ON TO BORE THE HOLE , NOW IF YOU ARE CAREFULL AND WANT TO GO ONE STEP FARTHER WHICH NOW THE FACTORY HAS DONE , TAKE MAGIC MARKER AND MAKE A LINE FROM THE OUTSIDE EDGES OF THE HOLE FORWARD TO THE CUTOUT, IF YOU NOTICE IT IS ABOUT 2 INCHES WIDE , NOW WITH A SHORT BLADED SAW CUT THIS PIECE OUT AND TRIM THE EDGES AND IT WILL BE SO MUCH EASIER TO GET THE CONVERTOR BOLTS IN , YOU WONDER WHY THE FACTORY TOOK UNTILL 2003 TO MAKE THE CHANGE , NOW WHEN YOU ARE FINISHED TAKE A SMALL PIECE OF SHEET METAL AND MAKE A COVER AND YOU HAVE THE 2 SCREW HOLES THERE TO HOLD IT ON , PIECE OF CAKE .. HTH JERRY