that's funny...that's my biggest complaint about the 22RE also...about impossible to remove the oil filter without spilling oil down the side of the block and all over the top of the front diff...

hellllooooo, toyota......might wanna rethink your oil filter positioning in general.

oh well, at least you don't have to pull the engine to change the oil filter (like some hondas).

and, i guess if that's our biggest complaint about their engines, that ain't so bad...

Luckily, they did. The new 4.0 V6 has the oil filter almost upside down on top of the engine. There's a built-in drain pan that prevents you from spilling oil on the engine and a drain plug to drain it. Well engineered. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

Reeeeeeaaaaallly? So where does one find a good filter with a GOOD anti-drainback valve?

Best filter location I've seen - and I hate to say it - is on my 4.3... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Yup, the 22RE is probably a more reliable and less costly engine to maintain than the 3.0 but if the timing chain guide breaks, getting all those pieces out of the oil pan is a PITA! I would take the 2.7 or 3.4 easily over the 22RE or 3.0 any day. As for best design, yes, the 22RE is less complicated and a better head design than the 3.0. But I've towed a 1000 lb boat with a stock 22RE in a standard cab 93 4x4 and it was a bad experience trying to get up to the speed limit. Thank god most of the driving was on flat ground. The worst Toyota engine I've had is also the best. When I first got my 87 4Runner turbo it had a cracked turbo housing that made no boost and a broken timing chain guide. I bet the engine wasn't even making 90 hp! The UPS truck could accelerate faster than that truck. But with a new timing chain guide, new turbo with ported housing and manifold, that truck was fast!

I find the 3.0 oil filter rather easy to get to, you just snake your hand in over the frame grab the filter and twist, granted it is all done blind, but it is a lot easier/cleaner than the 22r.

I have also owned rigs with 20r's, 22r's, and the 3.0 in stock form, mated to manual transmissions. The 3.0 easily won hands down, more power, better acceleration, better towing ability, and easily maitained freeway speed climbing the Sierras. Even when loaded down with gear, the 3.0 performs better. I agree that the 22r-re is really easy to work on, but once you have torn apart a 3.0, they're not that hard, only time consuming.

Hello All, I guess I have to chime in on this one!
I'll take the 3.0 over the 22 any day of the week! They both have there problems alike, the 3.0 has HG issues, that has been stated a 1000 times, people don't like to work on them for some reason or other. The fuel filter on a 3.0 is easier to get at vs. a 22, the 3.0 has more power and low end torque, now then, it does have power issues, mostly because of all the restrictions on it like the resticted crossover,resticted air intake, valves are to small, it can't breathe,the pcv valve is a pita to get to. On the other hand the 22 is easier to work on and that's why most people would prefer a 22, with a 22 you have to adj. the valves all the time, that timing chain likes to rattle. The 3.0 has the old injector tick that people can't stand, you have to replace the T-belt every 60,000. As far as durability I'd take the 3.0 any day of the week! It's a funny thing though, when ever Toyota found a problem with any of there vehicles no matter what it was it was corrected and by the next year it was re-engineered, this was true with the HG recall, but why did it take 7 years for Toyota to redesign the v6 and do away with the 3.0 and make a 3.4 engine, they new about the power issues! Why didn't the other 6 cylinder engines that Toyota have, have any power issues, for example the Camry v6, the straight 6 Supra and the Cressida. One other thought, the 3.0 does have power issues,especially in a 4runner or truck with an auto transmission, how about a 3.0 in a T-100 with an auto trans? I'll still take a 3.0, the reliability is unsurpassed! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

I've had both the 22re and the 3.0. I would have never driven the 22re across the country pulling the trailer I did with the 3.0. I don't regret buying the 3.0 whatsoever and noticed a big difference in the Sierras. I did pay more for the 3.0, but not enough to upgrade the 2.4 like others have mentioned. I only wish I knew of this board earlier than I found it.

I think it comes down to context.

Outside of specific vehicles, they are both great engines that will go forever if properly maintained, and half of that if not.

The 22RE does not cut it in a 90-95.5 4Runner. Period. Just too darn heavy. In the truck of similar years, it's adequate for 85-90% of what people do with it. In that same 4Runner, the 3VZ-E is adequate for 85-90% of what people do with it. In the truck, it's more than adequate for 85-90%.

The early trucks and 4Runners were light enough the 22Rxx was just fine (good thing since there wasn't a V6 yet <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />), so they aren't really part of the debate, at least from the standpoint of the engines in context.

Bottom line: the 22R is great for people who are willing to make a few modifications and minor investments to see some decent gains (and people who just like to tinker cough*darin*cough), and the 3VZ-E is great for people who want to just buy it and use it.

Stock, you make it sound like Ive got an addiction to the 22R-Es! Heck I dont live and breath Toyota engines. In fact after hauling Kewlynx's engine down to the loading docks the other evening...I took Thursday night off. I waited until last night before putting the spare laser block back on the stand...and then all I did was pull the crank and main caps, gallery plugs and then steam washed it inside and out. Bathed all the raw surfaces with a film of oil and tucked her in for the night. Today Im debating on if it'll get a hone and reassembly or if it will require being rebadged Gen3 22R-EB. Yup, it only had 5K miles on its rebuild when I pulled it from the 4Runners carcass....I just had a problem with driving around somebody elses shoddy workmanship. 3 of 8 bellhousing bolts installed, tranny hanging 1/2" of the back..yup I pulled it right quick. Already at 1mm over, and I dont like the idea of going to .050". Resleeving is an expensive option....must consult with the wizard after mic'ing the bores.

Then when this motor is done...I wont have any to tinker with. Although word has it, the boy is selling his POS Z34 and is wanting a second crack at the 81' Celica GT. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" />

~Darin <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/baby.gif" alt="" />