Smiley,

Reading your post I had a couple of quick thoughts....Oh yeah it also the first time in a long time that I have been back on the board....

First of all, it occurs to me that suspension systems are just that, systems. Not wanting to over simplify as I am hardly a suspension expert. Some things you may want to consider.

Is the tire pressure the same in all four tires? Differences in pressures between the the front and rear can feel pretty strange if the pressures are very different.

Also, I would tend to think that typically the front suspension is the first thing to get squirrelly with age and the kind of wear & tear that wheeling puts on a vehicle.

Given the number of parts in the front I would start there.

That being said, are you sure that its not the usual suspects
(Tie rod ends, Ball joints, idler or pitman arm play or the centerlink?)

Then I would jack up my vehicle leave the wheel on and spin it...make sure rotation is not wobbly as in bad or loose wheel bearings.

Then grab the wheel top and bottom and pull hard towards you checking for play. Repeat this from the sides, grabbing the front and back of the tire. It would help if you can get some assistance (another set of eyes) checking the parts as you pull on them.

Also take a long pipe/pole slide it under the wheel and lift up. Checking ball joints as you lift.

Once you have ruled out any obvious play or badly worn parts in the front do this in the rear. Jack the vehicle up from the bumper or frame leaving the suspension hanging.

Long pipes work wonders here. Wedge one end under the tire and lift from the back and try this from the side as well. checking for play in the spring pack or bushings, loose U-bolts, broken center pins and the like....

Just my $.02, also I had a busted rear spring which I did not notice until Joe D pointed it out to me....then like an idiot a light bulb came on.....explaining the bad handling.

Last but not least....if desparation sets in...load the suspension in the back....sandbags, feed grain sacks, something heavy right over the rear axle...drive....have someone else who owns a rodeo drive it and see what you think, compare notes....

Last but not least, I forgot to mention...I agree with Joe (bigpoppax2) I would suspect the spring packs. expecially if you see gaps in the pack.

Matt

SMiley,
Another question,you say the u-bolts are tight.
Are the nuts bottomed out on either side of the "U"?
Causing the rear to wander?

Also when we drove to Boone for "cheerwine" I thought
the Rodeo rode exceptionally well...no swaying,or anything
even when there was 6" of snow on the road.

I realize that driving and riding are 2 different things
but is it possible that what your feeling is coming thru the steering wheel?Making you want to compensate for wander,movement by small adjustments of the steering wheel.....which translates to more major movements in the entire Rodeo's feel?

I guess I'm just fishing........

Gining you something more to think about......kinda'
like Mikey <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bansil

Out of necessity, this may end-up being my longest post ever û and for that I am truly sorry û but in order to get at the answer(s), this is gonna take a whole lot of typingà


First of all, I want to thank everyone for their suggestions thus far (Well, everyone but Mikey <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> ) û I really appreciate it!




Joe,

While I have said that the added leaf springs are not nesting properly with the factory leaves, and that the factory leaves were sagging from the get-go û I never said that the problem started the moment that the prototype leaves were addedà The fact is, for a while they felt just fine. --- I actually went for quite some time without any handling problemsà This started as a minor annoyance that has gradually escalated over time.


I am seriously considering completely replacing my spring packs, but with a major lack of funds, itÆs something that will take a while to accomplish. --- In the meantime, I want to concentrate on any (and all) other possible causesà




Are we talking about the same bushings? --- æout of my ôFRAMEö ???Æ

Assuming that was a misstatement --- I could be wrong, but IIRC, the forward leaf spring bushings are a two-piece unit, with a metal sleeve inserted. --- They might be difficult to remove and install, but I donÆt think a machine shop is required to get them in or out.

(Can anyone confirm or correct me on this one?)


___________________________________________________



Matt,

You are 100% correctà It is a ôsuspension systemö

Your post raises some very interesting points, so IÆm going to answer all of your questions, one-at-a-timeà




Yes û IÆm a stickler about that. --- As far as I can tell, the tire pressure has nothing to do with the actual problem. --- Although, a while back, a reduction in tire pressure did improve the overall ride quality û in and of itself, at the most, when the pressure is higher, it acts as a sort of amplifier, and æcommunicatesÆ the irregularities more intensely.





Excellent point! --- And IÆm not discounting it as a possibilityà In fact, I suspect that there is something loose up frontà HOWEVER, I am beginning to believe that I have two distinctly different problems occurring at once û one in the front and one in the rear û because focusing just on the front does not account for one very significant detail:

Why did everything feel so much more stable when one of the shackles was nearly stationary, due to those over-tightened shackle bolts?


Try as I might, I just canÆt seem to get past that one. --- To *me*, it seems to indicate that there is something going on in the REARà And from the driverÆs seat (and remember, I have some previous experience with broken bits and pieces on that very same leaf pack), it feels like the rear end is moving around in ways that it most definitely should notà almost identical to what it felt like when I had a broken Add-a-Leaf and snapped Center Pin.

When those shackle bolts were too tight, and the shackleÆs movement was therefore greatly diminished, everything felt MUCH MORE stable and predictable. --- And oddly enough, it still felt like the spring was capable of moving through its full range of motion and doing its job as if everything was completely normal.

Granted, it still felt like something was wrong back there, but the improvement (versus having the shackle bolts as they should be) was remarkably noteworthyà and it is a detail that I believe should be factored-in, and given very serious consideration, when trying to diagnose the source of the problem.





I will try all of them û front and rear û just as soon as I have the time, and the weather is cooperative enough. --- Thanks! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />





( <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> Sorry, I canÆt help but laugh) Apparently you are unaware of the absurd amount of stuff that I carry around in the back of my Rodeo, everywhere, all-of-the-time. --- ItÆs enough stuff that Joe (BigPoppa) makes fun of me about ità I would have to guess that weÆre talking about a minimum of 400 or 500 lbs.

As for having another Rodeo owner drive mineà It would have to be someone with a Lock Right in theirs, because without a familiarity of the infamous quirks involved, they might easily confuse them with some of the unrelated symptoms that IÆve been describing.

(Which raises the question: Is there anyone who is planning to attend the upcoming ISUZUwharrie Event that owns a Rodeo with a 5-speed, a locker, 3+3 inches of lift, Rancho 9000s, and M/T tires?)





And you are both probably right. --- It might be that isolating the shackle allowed the gaps to serve as the point of motion, which would therefore account for why it felt like the spring was performing normally, even when it obviously wasnÆt.


___________________________________________________



Doug,

Since youÆve actually ridden in my Rodeo recently, IÆm more than a little surprised that you didnÆt notice any of the sloppy handling characteristics that IÆm talking aboutà



As far as I can tell, NO. --- They seem to be snug, just as they should be.





I was making thousands of steering corrections the whole way û especially while we were trudging through all of that snow. --- I recall at one point in particular, as we were headed out toward the edge of Boone, the little car in front of us seemed to be making its way through the chunky powder quite easily, without any apparent steering corrections at all û meanwhile, I was right behind them, driving on the very same surface, fighting like stank with the steering wheel to keep us on course.

Seriously - You really didnÆt feel all of that jostling and wandering?





Apparently!





IÆm not ruling anything out as a possibility. --- And like I said, IÆm reasonably sure that thereÆs something wrong up front as wellà but IÆm sticking with my belief that it isnÆt just in the front. --- Without a doubt, there is definitely something wrong in the rear.



Not to beat a Dead Horse, butà

Am I the only one who thinks that itÆs meaningful that having those shackle bolts over-tightened provided such a noticeable improvement?

And mind you, that was just on one sideà The passenger side shackle bolts were normal. --- I suppose a good test of this would be for me to go out and over-tighten both sides, just to see if it would provide an improvement over having just one side over-tightened.

(And YES, I know this wouldnÆt be a solution to the problem û IÆm just saying that it might help me to narrow-down the possibilitiesà Although, I have to admit; if this did eliminate the rear-end wander, it would be pretty hard for me to adjust it back the way itÆs supposed to be û IÆd probably want to leave it that way, even if only until I can get around to actually fixing it.)



For the rear, I still canÆt seem to get it out of my head that the forward bushings arenÆt involved in some way.

As for the frontà IMO, whatever is going on up there, it doesnÆt seem to be anywhere near as imperative to address as the rear.



(Is everyone still awake? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/sleeping.gif" alt="" /> )



<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I just lifted my Trooper 3" (Suspension) last month and the "forward" rear leaf spring bushings were pretty tough to get out.

I used a drill to destroy as much of the rubber that I could and then I set them on fire to both get rid of the remaining bushing material and to make the metal expand a tiny bit, this got rid of the inner sleeve as well. I then took two screwdrivers (one big flathead and a smaller #1 philips) and an awl and used them to seperate the outer sleeve from the spring. Basically I got enough of the edge of the outer sleeve to crush over to provide a surface to smack with my hammer. I was able to hammer out the old outer sleeve. Then I cleaned the spring eyes real good and used the provided grease and installed the new bushings.

Funny, it seems so much easier now... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" />

The 99 Amigo (remember coils in the back) does the same thing. It gets blown away real easy, my gf wont drive it if the wind is blowing too hard. I dont know if it has been discussed, but

have you tried tightening the steering? the nut on the steering box?

kevan

Sounds very much like the lower control arm bushing I messed with. Yes it was a destroy comming out and press back in as well.

Although is does sound like the installation of the new bushings is much easier. I had to put my lower control are bushing in the freezer and while it was cooling down I took a flapper wheel and really cleaned out the inner surface. (probably took some metal that should have stayed)

I was even worried about that until I was reinstalling the new bushing. Geez, I used a 4 ton porta power and grease and this is all after it had been in the deep freezer for about an hour.

It sounds as if the new bushing you are dealing with is just poly on the outside. It should be much eaiser to install. You will have a bear of a time getting the old bushing out. I'd really want to know it's bad before going through all of this for nothing.

If the new bushing does have a metal sleeve on the outside, I see shop labor in your future.

Joe

Yep - It was suggested in my first 'bad handling' threadà

Although, even if it were to help, it still wouldnÆt account for the drastic improvement that I experienced when both of the driverÆs side shackle bolts were over-tightened.



IÆll tell you whatà At this point, my list of things to check is starting to get so long, it includes just about everything but the muffler bearings! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />


<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well, all I can offer is good luck. I would offer a hand but it might take me a while to drive over there. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> I would agree with the idea of tightening the shackle bolts on both sides to see what it does. "It couldn't howt!"

Good luck <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

::raises hand::

The frame-side bushings are a pain to change, and their outer sleeve is press-fit with the leaf spring eye. That said, they are removable with persistence... and would be a cheap rule-out. Might as well pull the whole spring pack and check all the leaves for cracks. Replace the U-bolts on reassembly -- IMHO, these are best used only once.

IMHO, your locker is amplifying whatever *squirm* you have -- and unless you are actually connecting the rear tires together to equalize air pressure, I wonder if they are exactly the same, and that's assuming the tires have identical wear. Have you tried rotating tires to see if there's a different.

I don't understand why changing the shackle changed the handling... dunno. Try repeating it to see if you can recreate the perceived change.

Randii