I've owned a Montero and I gotta say, you gotta give them their dues. The rear axles are enourmous, and with an open diff. I was slogging through mud pits that a locked Commanche didn't make it through. I would not vote them as "Best 4x4" though because the IFS is too limiting in my opinion. I will say I was far, far more confident my Montero wouldn't break something than my XJ. Its nice to have a redicuously overbuilt frame/drivetrain under you than a unibody and a couple of questionable axles. Also, you will find in many South/Central Countries and Pacific countries Monteros dominate the market there for their outstanding capability, durability and reliability.

Overall I think a stripped down FJ80 would be the end all/do all of 4x4's. Bulletproof straight 6, beefy axles, f&r lockers.

Factory locker isn't the end-all, do-all either. There've been plenty of times LSD has gotten me through problems that I'd have had to 'lock up' for, often only after getting stuck...

I fully invite you to park an 88 Jeep anything next to my Montero. Crawl underneath and speak your mind!

One of the shows on TNT just tore a Jeep down for a lift. I have to say I was -not- impressed with the parts they removed (stock Jeep). However, I really don't think they'd be a problem for a stock vehicle doing what a stock vehicle's capable of. Likewise, before going on and on about how something's designed - ask two questions. 1. How should it be different, and 2 will that difference negatively impact -anything- John Q Public SUV customer might want? Weight? Turning radius? Milage? On-Road ride quality?

It's nice to have an opinion but frankly automotive engineers are pretty darn smart. GENERALLY if something's a given way, it's that way for a very good reason. You don't think management lets R&D (or design) do whatever the heck they want, do you?

come on auto mon quit smacking this hornets nest with your big ol' stirrin spoon <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />...
after reading this post, couldnt help but notice all the jeep owners defending their rigs. admirable and understandable but, why is it that all these jeeps seem to be need modification to be trail ready? lockers, lift, blah, blah. i'll admit im a little bias, i dont like jeeps. as mr. blackstone mentioned, their popularity is unrivaled... especially here in ut, home of the mecca of wheelin'. but what i notice, being a native, is that a majority of jeep owners mouths write checks their <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/butwiggle.gif" alt="" /> cant cash. they throw a couple of k into their rig, and think they can smoke anything on the trail. as for throwing the montero into the grocery getter catagory... sure i can pick up a couple hundie worth of food at alby's and throw it into the back of my rig while enjoying the luxury of my bouncy seats, go home put the stuff away and go pretty much wheel anyplace a moderatly modified jeep can go. but all in all... let it be said that my yota hilux will out wheel my monty in a majority of situations, unless it involves serious snow or mud its just too light. but when it comes to climbing, it will more than hold its own. that is unless i want to be comfortable, which my monty is. not picking a fight, thats already been done. but really now, comfort+utility+stock off road capability= montero. but since thats not the topic, best stock 4x of all time is either the old school yota land rover, or the early 70's cracker box bronco sport.
btw, jeepguy... leave your tow strap and bumper jack at home, i'll bring mine <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" />.

LOL, I guess I better chime in here. I promise I'll try to be as objective as possible.

What's the best? Heck that's a hard question to answer unless you qualify it a bit more. Best in what respect? What kind of off road activity are you looking at doing?

I'm as die hard a mitsu guy as any of these mitsu guys but I don't think you can say I'm a Mitsu only guy (As many of you have probably seen, I've posted questions bout which year/model cherokee to buy not too long ago).

I'll tell you some of the mitsu pro's & con's IMHO and let you debate how jeeps or other 4x4's are better.

Pro's
- hugh rear diff in V6 models, especially 3.5L SR's.
- 32's w/out lift or drivetrain changes
- 33's w/ longer rear spring no drivetrain changes
- 35's w/ 2" body lift no drivetrain changes but 5.29 R&P's suggested.
- Lockers? (SR's come w/ stock rear lockers) ARB available for both front and rear.
- LSD was an option for all years
- Stock AT Tranny, Oil coolers
- Plush ride on washboard roads
- W/ rocker protection & the minor upgrades for 33's an otherwise stock gen II SR can do the Con (before the jeep jamboree aka annual jeep highway project... sorry, couldn't resist) w/out problems.

Cons
- Aftermarket support is very limited.
- Current models are more soccer mom than I'd like to see due to limited tire size fitment w/out serious custom fab work.
- Nobody knows didly about the drivetrain and mitsu's not very forthcoming with details on who makes what (diff, axles, tranny, xcase, etc.)
- Lack of general knowledge about them pushes them deeper into the soccer mom category (actually I don't mind. Keeps virgin rigs available on ebay/auto-trader).
- Lack of trailworthness in the US allows us who do take them off road to discover their weaknesses.

Fixes needed before wheeling...
- Gen I rear trailer arm must be reinforced or breakage will ensue if you wheel it regularly.

Other issues...
- Valve guide seals need replacement every 60-100k (minor)
- Gen I rear Axle housings likely to break after/if training arms go. (minor if preventative actions taken w/ trailing arms)

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

FWIW, I do think that jeep have been a MAJOR influencer in bringing the 4x4 market to where it's at today and I do like the rubicon although I'd rather pay $5k for a 95 SR monty and another 4-5k for upgrades (35's, 4.90's, 2.85xcase, front ARB, and armor) and spend the remaining 12k I'd save from not buying the rubicon on 4x4 trips. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

P.S. I wouldn't mind something like the hurricane either.

Good response, Scottie! I really enjoyed reading your post. I don't agree with your apraisal of Jeeps, and some of your points show an obvious lack of knowledge of the various Jeep models. By the way, there are no Jeep Laradeo models. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

Well, for my own knowledge, what is the model that I am talking about? Is it the Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo? Something like that? If what I posted was wrong, please be specific and tell me the corrections. Also what you don't agree with and reasons why?

Okay, Utah!

I go over to Moab frequently; if your Montero is as capable as you say, what trails in Moab have you done without a tow strap or without winching over an obstacle? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

The only thing I have to say to any jeeper that is talking smack (and it only happens on the web for some reason) is ask them how many times they have exploded u-joints in that d30... and how many axles in that d35?

I have dragged at least 5 jeeps off the trail in the past 2 years with exploded d35's and pulled as many of 30's apart, and put in axles on the trail. As far as I am concerned that sucks. Get some CTM's or get some dana44's or something. Get an adequate axle under there.


I can see this from both sides of the fence. There are advantages and disadvantages to both.


Drive what you like, make it perform like you like, enjoy your vehicle. Really simple.....

AND I will continue to pull the jeeps out with broken d35's and they will continue to pull me out with sheared PS pump's, and all my failures.


On the trail round here it is NOT segregated.

I didn't know stock Jeeps came with 37" tires. I guess I need to go back to the dealership and ask them what's going on. Fred, which option package did you specify that included such a big tire?

Landraider,

This has been fun! I've been home the last few days attempting to get over a flu/virus. I just re-read the posts, it was as I thought: the "mitsibitsi/moneroes/reiders" posters, except two individuals, were the ones "talking smack" about Jeeps! It's been interesting, I certainly will look a little closer the next time I see these foeign vehicles on our trails.

Man, you guys would make poor house-guests! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />
I sincerely hope that "jeep-guys" don't go over to your mitsibitsi board and blast your mitsibitsi's! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />