is the topic STOCK 4x4? anyone seen the new dodge powerwagon? only vehicle i know of with a factory winch, beefy solid axles and lockers. it's basically built trailworthy right out of the factory (though i've only seen pictures). i don't think i'd put any unibody on the list for a bunch of reasons. going on the basis of stock, solid axles, and lockers the list isn't very long...

What about an old FJ40? I'd rather have that over any Jeep (with the possible exception a Rubi Unlimited :drool:) and it seems pretty capable out of the box. Never mind that lifting one can be super cheap and the old straight six motors (F through 3F, anyway) seem to be nearly bulletproof.

Having said that, I'd love to have any old Landcruiser, FJ40-FJ62, a Land Rover, swb or lwb, or a Willy's wagon... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> My old Trooper II will do for now, though...

I have always liked the FJ-40 I bought new in 1972; it was my very first 4x4. There were a lot of things I liked about FJ-40's, but it would be easy, today, to take a new TJ right off the showroom floor over an FJ-40. I not sure if this is true or not; but, I've heard that the FJ-40 is being made in Canada with a diesel engine. (?) Anybody know for sure?

Sir, i was not saying toyotas are the best 4x4 rigs. i was merely pointing out a strong point.

In the same thought, can your jeep regularly stand up to class 6 roads at 45mph? there are plenty of dumba$$'s around here that do it regularly in toyotas. (NOT ME)

High school kids who dont know how to drive will put a vehicle through much more stress than an experienced driver will. So suddenly, our "easy" trails turn into beating the everliving snot out of a truck. And toyotas hold up!

Also, the mud out here gets as deep and as difficult as anywhere. Commmon wheelin' here is old logging roads in the middle of a thunderstorm. Sure we don't have any big dry rocks, but its a different kind of difficult.
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

Cute, a narrow Hummer....

Geepers, no kidding?!?!? I bought a 1991 YJ new going on 14 years ago this summer. Within a year, I was snapping U-Joints and trying to get everything out of it that I could! Over time, we want to upgrade the heck out of our rigs to meet our new desires and expectations. I wouldn't mind having a Dana 60 setup, I wouldn't mind having good flex, I wouldn't mind having a lot of things for my Jeep, but they don't build them with all these things because of two factors. Cost and safety. The reason why MOPAR put the side mirrors on the doors is because of state laws requiring you to have two mounted mirrors on. The one on the windshield and one on either side or just on the sides. Safety, they try to keep your doors on by keeping you legal with the mirrors. Simple example. Another, The windshield to roll bar "bars".. They have break away bolts on the windshield frame and tamper-proof torx on the roll bar end. They come with the bumper things and even the tie-down point on the hood and the strap on the windshield frame to lower your windshield down, but they put those bolts on that are a pain to take out and if you break the bolts getting them off, you have a lot of work that you have to do.... This all a safety thing, sure you can take your windshield down like an old Jeep, but it isn't easy, MOPAR's safety attempts.
Cost. If you put a pair of Dana 60s or 70s on a Wrangler at the factory, how much of a price jump do you think there would be? I'd say a couple grand easy as you wouldn't have any reason to put them between the wheels when you have a 2.5 L engine in there? Yea, going to have to go with a 4.0 or better, then transmission, then transfer case, then beef up the frame even more to handle the torque....

So, there are obvious reasons why Jeeps don't come with V-10 engines and 47 inch tires.... Most of us live in places where there are laws that govern how high your bumper can be, or how far your tires can stick out. I'd bet that 1 out of 500 Jeep owners actually upgrade everything where 1 in 100 really want to and 1 in 10 think about it because it looks cool. If a Wrangler came with everything that the advanced Jeep owner would want in their rig, it would cost a fortune. If Jeep made them standard with all the gadgets and beefed up gear, they would only sell about 10% of their stock! Cost and safety....

Wow, what a can of worms was opened here! In response to various claims that were made here against Monteros and how Jeep has it going on much better than Mitsubishi's Montero, I would like to start off by saying that I had the opportunity to drive and learn about both vehicles in question: My buddyÆs Jeep Rubicon and my 1997 Montero. Now I don't have a fully loaded Montero with all the creature comforts like leather heated seats and what not, but I do have the factory locker and the '4x4 equipment' that comes with the Montero from factory. My brother has a fully loaded Montero, and I can therefore speak as if I had one of those as well. This will play into some of my points later on.

I would like to preface my comments by stating that since I actually drove both vehicles being compared in many responses here on this thread, my comments made here are not just bias slander. Instead, they are based on my personal experience with both rigs and facts about them. I am not here to say Monteros are the best just b/c I own one. I have reasons behind what I can say about both vehicles.

OK, now on to some substance here. I liked the Rubicon when I drove it. My buddy has a brand new one, and I drove it in various off road situations. I liked the really low gear range and the front and rear lockers from factory. Overall, it performed very well and seemed fun to drive. What I did not like about it was the cramped interior and almost non existent cargo room for trail/camping equipment. It also lacked the creature comforts that a fully loaded Montero provides in addition to off road capability.

Correct me if I am wrong, but aside from the recently released Rubicon and those concept 4x4Æs you mention that are in a completely different category, Jeeps don't come with factory lockers. The Rubicon came out if I remember correctly sometime after 2000 correct? Well if Monteros were just meant for mall shopping, then why did Mitsubishi put lockers in them from the factory since 1992? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> That is almost a decade of Mitsubishi putting in factory lockers before Jeep thought it was a good idea and put them in the Rubicon. I would have to say stock vs. stock Monteros were much farther removed from the soccer mom SUV category than most jeeps that don't have factory equipment like that, and for a much longer time as well. Having said that, I would hardly go on to compare the Montero to other soccer mom SUV's like the Ford Explorer or Dodge Dakota that never had a factory locker............ever. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif" alt="" />

I totally agree that different 4x4's perform better in different situations and terrain. It is a function of personal preferences in a vehicle as well as what type of wheeling you plan to do. As was pointed out, those $50k 4x4's that are big, bulky, and have huge engines are good for a purpose, but are in a completely different category than the Montero or Jeep Rubicon. To be honest, I wouldn't want a wide and bulky 4x4 that sucks down all your fuel by getting about 12 mpg. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> I like an efficient 4x4 vehicle that does what I need it to do using the least amount of fuel as possible extending my range of travel before having to look for a gas station. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

Stock vs. Stock when faced with a choice between a Montero SR and a Jeep Rubicon, I would have to take the Montero and here is why:

Both have factory lockers and performed equally well off road, but with the Montero I get to do it wrapped in heated leather power seats with a huge moon roof and almost triple the room for passengers and cargo. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> Not to mention factory adjustable shocks, power windows, head light washers, power locks, and all the other creature comforts that not only make wheeling more comfortable, but also allow for a dual use when a more refined and luxurious vehicle is more fitting. (Such as street driving, long road trips, taking a girl out, fancy functions, etc.) <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

Another thing I would like to comment on is the 'trail rated' thing. You all poke fun at a punishing rally race that Mitsubishi must win just by luck all the time (Dakar Rally), but what the heck does ætrail ratedÆ mean? I think it was a Laredo I saw on TV the other night that was 'trail rated' Do they even have factory lockers? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> I may be wrong, but I don't think they do. In my mind, for a vehicle to be trail rated and bragged about so much, I would hope that it would have a locker. I sense it as just a badge for marketing purposes. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif" alt="" />

As for valleycat's comment, the Montero is much farther removed from the soccer mom family of SUV's than some of your Jeeps that (aside from your recent Rubicon) not only don't come with factory lockers, but don't even have factory tow hooks!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif" alt="" /> I will never forget the ætrail ratedÆ Laredo that stuck in the snow and had no place for me to hook my tow strap so my Montero could pull him out. Stock vs. Stock I think the Montero has it over those Jeeps.

And here is what I think about your narrow-minded comment on the MonteroÆs narrow stance:
A narrow profile allows me to fit in those tight spots on trails that many 'wide and bulky' 4x4's can't. Depends on what you are wheeling, but for 95%-99% of the time, I am not concerned with tipping and it doesn't seem to be an issue with other Montero owners either. To share some more personal experience, I took part in a convoy once that had several jeeps, two H2 Hummers, and various other vehicles. Needless to say, those wide bulky 4x4's bounced off trees that I easily passed through. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> We had to stop the convoy twice b/c of those huge H2 Hummers and their bulky nature. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/barf.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/barf.gif" alt="" /> The Jeep Liberty in front of me had a few fender benders on some trees that I slipped right through after him. Even though having a slightly narrower width may slightly increase your chance of tipping, the benefits of easier maneuver through tight spots well out weighs the very few occasions that I am concerned with rolling.

Another claim on this thread described how Monteros aren't used in Colorado and Utah as commonly as Jeeps or other vehicles. Well buddy, thatÆs b/c they aren't that common in the United States at all!! Monteros aren't marketed as heavily in the US as your Jeeps, but that has nothing to do with how well built or capable they are. Why don't you check out how commonly the Pajero (same as Montero outside of US) is used in an abundance of other countries around the world and then tell me they aren't designed or used for tough terrain <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/nana.gif" alt="" />

I am not here writing this to be an <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/butwiggle.gif" alt="" /> hole to you guys. I think Jeeps are good vehicles, especially the Rubicon, but you really shouldn't slander a vehicle (in this case the Montero) without first driving both vehicles in question and looking at it from both perspectives. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />

Lastly, you guys criticize about punctuation, how about spelling? Twice in this thread you guys didn't even know how to spell the make of the model of the vehicle that you were so blindly slandering. Montereo and Mitibishi are incorrect and just further display your lack of knowledge of the vehicle since you don't even know how to spell them. How can I take your words as credible when you can't even get the name right? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif" alt="" />

I am all for getting all the facts and then passing judgments and making decisions. Here is an example of a mechanic that saw a Montero for the first time after having many other 4x4 vehicles and what he said about them. I wish I wrote down his name when I copied this quote from the Forum a long time ago, but here it is anyway:

"After spending a couple of days with this vehicle (ok, under this vehicle) I have decided that I want one. I've had many 4x4s (numerous Jeep XJs and a ZJ as well as a 600 lb/ft F250) and I believe that this Mitsu is the best built truck I've seen. Would anyone be interested in my 400 hp WRX so that I can buy a Montero?"

Just goes to show that one of your Jeep lovers actually figured it out for himself as we all should. To each his own, but when arguing and making claims, I like to stay with facts.


Hope this clears up any confusion you had about Monteros. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

not saying thet're the best just better than jeeps so even the most carlike of monteros is more trucklike than any jeep

Stop Taunting the Jeep guys. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />

They will figure it out one day.

5k worn out wrangler with d35, and d30
500 dollar montero with cracked head.

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

I prefer Gen1 Monteros but those Gen2s look pretty good. Mine is stock and has gone past being trail rated... its lasted me for the past 2 1/2 years and ive done alot to it and I admit to beating it and it just pushes back. Ive seen 15 jeeps for ever 2 montero/raiders in the autowreckers. I would also like to address how someone said the dakar can be done in 2wd... I would like to see a unmodified jeep take on an unmodified Gen1 Montero and see who comes out on top.