OK, I stand corrected, I looked it up. Laredo is a trim level of the Grand Cherokee. But as for all my other actually important points about this particular vehicle, I believe they are still true. If not please tell me what is not correct in what I said.

Javven,

It's an older offroad package; the brand is "incrementalism", and the model number is "Just Empty Every Pocket"! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

well to completly honest, the trip to moab is pending... ive only been a mitsu owner for about a year now, never would have given them a second thought and probrably ended up with a trooper II before falling in love with mine. but in my own defense i have been to moab quite a few times with the yota... would carry the tow strap and bumper jack for gp. never needed them on any trails i went on, yes i have been on hells revenge but fins' is my favorite because it reminds me of a roller coaster <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/drunk.gif" alt="" /> and i like to take my wife with me to ariate the seat covers <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" />. but moab isnt the only wheein' in utah... since ive had my monty, i have been nothing but impressed with its stock 4x'in capability... even back when it had bald 30" tires when i got it. the only mod's ive had to make is steppin up to 32x11.5xr15... not only for wheelin' but a little bit for ego and i didnt need a lift. as you know there are jeeps all over the place around here, and ive pulled out my fair share because the guy behind the wheel had eyes bigger than his stomach. a majority of my friends that have 4x's have jeeps, mainly because of the availability and theyre cheap to build up. back to utah wheelin, there are trails all over the place in no. utah... good ones. and then theres the west desert, lots of mud to play in if you catch it on a good day. areas that have comparable pucker factor as moab. and dont let it be said that i have not had the chance to get twisty and post up locally with the two wheel action <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" />. there is no doubt in my mind that my monty will do more than hold its own. the top heavy preception, while looking at it... is not at all accurate, so i have no concern for when i do get to post up on slickrock. yes, i have been on my top... 3 times. once in my monty on the freeway, and loved it enough to do a body swap. not my best idea, but i came out of it with a sunroof <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />. all in all, while i think this is a spirited debate, i think the sheer concept of the best 4x of all time is redundant... after all its the driver that makes the difference <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />.
WAIT I TAKE IT ALL BACK!!! IVE HAD IT IN MOAB... ERRR... 200 TIMES AND WENT UP THE BACK SIDE OF THE LIONS BACK <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />!
edit:
p.s. im thinking the mitsu owners on our boards can hold their own, much like our rigs <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/nana.gif" alt="" />.

Uh-huh.

Moab-schmo-ab. So it's a tough place to wheel. So it's pretty. So everyone here recognizes the name.

Me? I like wheeling places that no one's ever heard of. Funny that. Maybe Moab's tougher, maybe it's not. Thing is - someone already proved you could go there...

Scottie,

One thing you probably have noticed, jeep-guys don't typically get very excited about dana35 axles, lockers, any another short-comings of our Wranglers someone may want to point out . . . we've been complaining about this stuff for years. It just doesn't matter! Most stock Jeeps are upgraded for the trails we intend to do; part of the fun is building the Jeep! That's why most Jeep-guys are called gear-heads. Jeep Wranglers are made for offroad, and are not very good on the highway. Most people understand that point. Most mitsu owners never see a difficult trail, but are totally brand loyal. Most Jeep owners never see a difficult trail, but are brand loyal! It just doesn't matter. Most guys that frequently go offroad are interested in all 4x4's, and brand loyality isn't very important.

But, to continue the game . . . <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

Offroader wrote an interesting review of the "mitsibitsi":

Cons
- Aftermarket support is very limited.
- Current models are more soccer mom than I'd like to see due to limited tire size fitment w/out serious custom fab work.
- Nobody knows didly about the drivetrain and mitsu's not very forthcoming with details on who makes what (diff, axles, tranny, xcase, etc.)
- Lack of general knowledge about them pushes them deeper into the soccer mom category (actually I don't mind. Keeps virgin rigs available on ebay/auto-trader).
- Lack of trailworthness in the US allows us who do take them off road to discover their weaknesses.

Fixes needed before wheeling...
- Gen I rear trailer arm must be reinforced or breakage will ensue if you wheel it regularly.

Other issues...
- Valve guide seals need replacement every 60-100k (minor)
- Gen I rear Axle housings likely to break after/if training arms go. (minor if preventative actions taken w/ trailing arms)



FWIW, I do think that jeep have been a MAJOR influencer in bringing the 4x4 market to where it's at today and I do like the rubicon

One of the problems ALL the SUV makers face (BTW - I do like the idea you can get a Lib with a diesel - just too bad it's a Lib) is that the 'design box' keeps getting smaller and smaller.

What I mean is - there's a set number of things an SUV must do. It must have such-and-such a tire. It must meet safety requirements. It must meet emissions requirements. It must be cheap enough so people will actually buy it (ALL SUV makers have flushed this down the toilet, IMVHO). It must hold the kids, the fishing poles, tow the boat, but GHASP if it rolls over when you spin the wheel at 55. Tire lawsuits, rollover lawsuits, increased requirements for airbags, impact beams, bumpers. I can't imagine it...

Oh, yeah. Then there's us. I'm pretty sure what we want on our rigs doesn't exactly make the engineers smile when they hear it. Crash bumper? Yep - when I crash into a tree I want my bumper to stop it COLD. Breaking the tree, while less acceptable is an option. Tires? Yeah - fitting 33" tires stock would be preferable. More tire, more clearance, more articulation on as small a wheelbase as possible (rock crawling). Removable doors, please (I do like that about the Jeep). FULL SIZE spare tire. Plenty of fuel. Tools. Hard-points I can hi-lift jack from. Rocker panel guards I can rail-slide my truck on. 200HP minimum. Transmission you can grind rocks in. Axles that won't care when I dump power to a wheel that's currently well-wedged between some rocks. All in a truck that's light enough that four or five big dudes can reasonably push it through stuff.

Sorry but I have to chime in here. I constantly hear about New England trails being so easy. Its so flat out here, theres no rocks, theres no super soft sand.
Well some of that is true. But we have our own difficulties. We have things called trees which sometimes grow so close together you scrape as you pass through them. These tress have roots, and roots in a mud hole(which do get deep out here) present just as much trouble as say a nice dry rock that is kinda in your way out west, but there is a way around that rock just for those people who cant make it. Out here once you get onto a trail up here in NH you are commited to see it through or else you are giving up your truck to the enviroment. Adn there usualyl is only one path becasue our trails are in between trees not in a desert.
New Hampshire is also known as the Granite state. For good reason, there is a lot of granite here. That means there are rocks in some places, and as EightyEight said we wheel a lot in rain. Granite in the rain is just as slick as any other rock when wet.
As for the Class 6 roads at 45. I dont drive a yota, being a montero guy, but I have done them at about 30 and it is incredibly violent and my montero held up just fine.
OH and just about every trail out here you absolutly cannot go off the path. IF you do you eitehr fall 100 feet into a river, sink 10 feet into a pond that drops off instatnly right next to the trail, or you end up falling onto rocks or trees. The trails out here are hard, not in a rockcrawling sort of way but in the way that no one wheels new vehicles out here for a reason.
As for best 4x4, out here toytas, and moneteros are the best. You do not want a small rig like a Rubicon on some of the trails with steep hill climbs. Not unless you like being inverted that is. Every 4x4 has its place. Monteros are constantly winning in Dakar, and doing some slower rock crawling just as easily as some jeeps that are constantly used for rock crawling. Zuks are coming up in the world and are Isuzus which im seeing more of a lot lately.
However in factory stock form, I would have to say toyotas or Monteros would do better than a jeep in most places. And that is an unbiased belief supplied by expierence.

Utah, you joker!

Lion's back ain't nothing! Pritchet Canyon,Rusty Nail, Heldorado, . . . Utah, you ain't done Moab! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> That's my point, most of you guys don't take your monty's on difficult trails! You're pussys! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

I want to say something, but... instead I'll just give you that knowing smile and nod.

Yes and I still say that for $ & ease build up a mitsu 95SR will blow away a jeep until you start looking at trails that are rated in the X ratings as I've been doing 4+ trails in my relatively near stock monty for the past few years (my upgrades include 33" tires, a 2" longer coil in back, and armor).

Trails I've run in Utah w/ my LWB Montero on 32's or 33's open & w/ a locker include Moab Rim Trail (personal favorite), Golden Spike, Poison Spider, Gold Bar, there are a couple more I don't remember. I avoid the easy trails there cause they put me to sleep unless the view is absolutely spectacular.

Only places I had trouble in Utah (2) was...
- going over the crack w/ an open dif, but hey who doesn't have a problem there w/ open difs. Not an issue w/ any traction aids including stock ones.

- then there was a pretty cool trail I was on from a couple of years back but I don't recall the trail name. Lloyd Swartz knows, as he was leading and it was just the two of us. I got stuck due to the length of the LWB (stuck on sliders).

Again, I'm not trying to slam jeeps here, but just putting mitsu's into proper perspective. If you REALLY want the "fun" of building up your a jeep for a few grand extra just to get on equal footing w/ a Mitsu w/ basic mods (wheels & tires), then have at it.

Me? I'd rather get out on the trail!