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Limited Slip in Front #589317 04/06/05 01:01 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 697
A
AZPetrak Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Just bought a 2001 TJ that already has a 3" Full traction lift, 33" tires, a sport (roll) bar and a few other things on it. I am planning on a Aussie locker in the rear and was thinking about a limited slip in front. The reason I was thinking limied slip in front is so I get some traction from the front, but try to save the weak Dana30 axles and u-jionts.

What are the pros and cons, who has run this type of set-up?

I am mostly interested in moderate trails (3.0 - 4.0).


2007 4x4 Tacoma Dbl Cab with TDR and rear locker - stock for now
2001 Wrangler Sport - sold
1998 Rodeo S 4x4 - traded in
Re: Limited Slip in Front [Re: AZPetrak] #589318 04/06/05 01:34 AM
Anonymous
Unregistered
You could always go with a selectable locker. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

Re: Limited Slip in Front #589319 04/06/05 02:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,817
F
Fred Blackstone Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Christian,
your 2001 sport more than likely came with a D35 for a rear axle, and a D30 for the front axle. The D30 front axle is the better of the two axles; it's the D35 that is the true weak link in the drive-train. The D30 is a pretty stout axleshaft assembly and will easily support a selectable locker which is most often recommended over an automatic (always engauged) style locker, even with 33" tires. The D30 in the 2001 is a 297X u-joint (someone correct me please if I have this incorrect) and much stouter than the 260X used in the Yj's. The limited slip style lockers are not always going to work when climbing over obstacles --- LSD's are somewhat more effective in sand and mud trail conditions. Long term --- limited slip devices wearout, apparently, after only a few thousand miles. I like the ARB locker, but there are many other selectable lockers to consider. In regard to the D35 rear axle, I would recommend not wasting any money on any upgrades for it; replace the D35 with a stouter axle as soon as possible. The D35 has thin tube housing, marginally acceptable axleshaft strength, and non-floating c-clip assembly; 33" tires are possibly pushing the envelope for the D35 rear axle design strength. Welcome to the wonderful world of Jeeps! That moniker "It a Jeep thing . . . " is all about building a capable 4x4 trail rig.


94 YJ, SOA, 2-1/2 Alcans, ARB-front, Detroit-Rear, 4.56:1 gears, Oasis Trailhead compressor, 4:1 Terra Lo, 37x12.50x15 SSR's, 8000 lb Ramsey, & etc.
Re: Limited Slip in Front [Re: AZPetrak] #589320 04/06/05 02:07 AM
Anonymous
Unregistered
If you have the cash for a selectable that would be the first choice, but a limited slip is probably more preferable for a front end so that stearing is not too affected.

Don't under estimate the dana 30, it will take way more pounding than the dana 35 in back.

Locker in Front first? #589321 04/06/05 05:14 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 697
A
AZPetrak Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Thanks for the info. I am not new to 4-wheeling, I have been off roading for years and I understand selectible lockers vs. automatic lockers, and the difference between full carrier lockers (Detoit, ARB) and "lunch box" lockers(Lock Rite, EZ, Aussie).

Can't afford selectible lockers, well I could afford one, but that would be all of my money for upgades. I have about $900 to spend.
What would you guys suggest for lockers?
I would really like to re-gear my diffs, but maybe that will have to wait.


2007 4x4 Tacoma Dbl Cab with TDR and rear locker - stock for now
2001 Wrangler Sport - sold
1998 Rodeo S 4x4 - traded in
Re: Locker in Front first? [Re: AZPetrak] #589322 04/06/05 05:17 PM
Anonymous
Unregistered
If you get the locker before you re-gear, be sure it will be compatible with the gear set you want to change to.

Re: Locker in Front first? #589323 04/06/05 05:31 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 697
A
AZPetrak Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Yep, thanks for the reminder, I think both Dana30 and Dana35 diffs change carrier size at 3.55:1, I am going to go with 4.10:1. This means I will have to re-gear at the same time ans add a locker.

So put a locker in front first? Maybe limited slip in rear?
I would go with the True Tack so there are no clutch packs to wear out. Maybe an Aussie locker in front.


2007 4x4 Tacoma Dbl Cab with TDR and rear locker - stock for now
2001 Wrangler Sport - sold
1998 Rodeo S 4x4 - traded in
Re: Locker in Front first? [Re: AZPetrak] #589324 04/06/05 06:03 PM
Anonymous
Unregistered
I know a few people running lunch box front lockers, including the Aussie; they seem to be very happy with them. JeePete has the Aussie up front, maybe he'll jump in on this thread? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

Re: Locker in Front first? [Re: AZPetrak] #589325 04/06/05 08:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 1,817
F
Fred Blackstone Offline
Body Damage is Cool
I would recommend not considering any investment to upgrade the D35, and would caution you against installing a full automatic locker in the D30. I'm not familar with the Aussie locker, but apparently it is a full locker, not a limit slip traction device.
You'll find on rock climbs, especially, where you have great traction using a full locker in the D30, It will be very difficult to steer left or right. With the locker engauged, and the tires are not slipping to release some of the torque building up in the locked axle drivetrain; it will make it nearly impossible to steer the Jeep without disengauging the locker. In many situations on trail rides, once you have crawled over the obstacle, you'll find it necessary to make a left or right turn. This is where a selectable locker has an advantage, it is much easier to simply throw a switch to disengauge the front locker; it's will be difficult to disengauge the 4WD if you have a full automatic locker in the D30.
It isn't just climbing over rocks where this occurs, I experience this steering problem just climbing up steep trails with the ARB in the D30 engauged. A common situation is on steep narrow shelf roads with tight switchbacks. A selectable locker makes the climb that much easier.
It's common for Jeep owners who frequently four wheel to put-off addressing the necessary D35 upgrade. Some Jeep owners will get by for several years before the tube housing severely sags, the tube housing separates from the differential, and they tolerate frequent axleshaft replacements on the trail. I was that way, too. Finally, the tube started turning in the differential. I was able to make it back off the trail and to the shop to have a Tera 60R axle installed. I suspect most Jeep owners that have this experience are not as fortunate.
The point is that the D35 is nearly adequate in design for stock tires when frequently wheeled offroad. I suspect that a LSD in the rear axle will not make a significant difference the way a full locker will in causing the D35 to fail. I just want to advise that it would be better to upgrade to a stouter rear axle, and not to waste any dollars in upgrading the D35 in any manner.
Unfortunately, most new Jeep buyers are not aware of the D35's limitations, and frequently do not opt for the D44 rear axle that is available.
If you are going to pay to have the lockers and r&p gears changed, it is smart to have it all done at one time to reduce the overall expense. In the same manner, it may be wise to finance the total expense of having all your upgrades completed at one time, it will give you peace of mind when four wheeling. If you don't have a winch, I suggest making this a priority before anything else.
Where you have experience four wheeling your rodeo, I hope you see my posts as a simple reminder of some of the basics. I've always found that Jeeps tend to tempt four wheelers to do trails and obstacles they never attempted before; we find ourselves between a rock and a hard place it seems on every trail we do.


94 YJ, SOA, 2-1/2 Alcans, ARB-front, Detroit-Rear, 4.56:1 gears, Oasis Trailhead compressor, 4:1 Terra Lo, 37x12.50x15 SSR's, 8000 lb Ramsey, & etc.
Re: Locker in Front first? [Re: Fred Blackstone] #589326 04/06/05 11:01 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 697
A
AZPetrak Offline OP
Rock Warrior
Quote
I would recommend not considering any investment to upgrade the D35, and would caution you against installing a full automatic locker in the D30. ... The point is that the D35 is nearly adequate in design for stock tires when frequently wheeled offroad.
So both axles are junk? I know that the dana35 axle tubes are weak and are prone to bending, but you are saying they will not last at all? I drive relatively mild off road, as little throttle as possible, I use momentum not speed to make it over obstacles.
I guess this is why the Ford8.8 swap is so popular.
Quote
where you have great traction using a full locker in the D30, It will be very difficult to steer left or right.
This is a debate among many. An engaged ARB is like a spool, no differentiation at all, the Aussie locker is supposed to be able to "unlock" the faster moving wheel easier and faster than any other automatic locker. This will give it an advantage over an ENGAGED ARB when trying to turn, especially on narrow shelf roads with tight switchbacks, of course the advantage of the ARB is the ability to disengage it on this type of terrain.
Quote
Where you have experience four wheeling your rodeo, I hope you see my posts as a simple reminder of some of the basics.
Thanks for the input. The Rodeos come standard with Dana44s in the rear and a pretty stout front IFS so you did worry about it till you go bigger than 33 inch tires. This is why I posted, I know that the Wragler axles are weak, I guess I just under-estamated how bad they are.


2007 4x4 Tacoma Dbl Cab with TDR and rear locker - stock for now
2001 Wrangler Sport - sold
1998 Rodeo S 4x4 - traded in
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