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Re: 4RnrRick is getting a 7M-GE / 7MGE Motor swap [Re: 4RnrRick] #611526 06/21/05 07:30 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 259
4
4RnrRick Offline OP
Mudrunner
Heres some pictures of the two bell housings side by side. This W58 bell housing is from a 87 Supra non turbo 5 speed. The W56 is from my 85 22RE 5 speed 4Runner.

[Linked Image]

For the clutch line I just cut the line and re-double flared it.

[Linked Image]

Then I re-used the factory steel and rubber line combo that the W56 used. The feet on the clutch slaves are different so you need to make sure you get the one for your new bell housing.

[Linked Image]

For the throttle cable I removed the one for the 22RE since its like 2 feet too long and installed the one from the donor cressida. This is basically a bolt -in part..... just need to find some longer bolts and some large washers. The only kicker here is that I heard you need to install it from the inside of the cab to make it work. So thats what I did.

[Linked Image]

I also cleaned up the engine bay a bit. Just a quick wipe down is fine for me......

[Linked Image]


Project Quasimodo
'85 Xtra Cab (2wd, 22RTE, Auto => 4wd, 3RZ, w56, 2.28x4.70)

Re: 4RnrRick is getting a 7M-GE / 7MGE Motor swap [Re: 4RnrRick] #611527 06/21/05 06:24 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 259
4
4RnrRick Offline OP
Mudrunner
Okay just talked to the Salesman on the wrecking yard about the 7M Supra oil pan, pickup, dip stick and dip stick tube that they still owe me......

I guess they got the oil pan in that I need but it doesn't have anything else with it. So they shipped it back and ordered another one from another wrecking yard. Well that wrecking yard finally shipped it and the same thing happened AGAIN!!! He thinks they are just pulling the pan off the shelf and shipping it and not reading the rest of the PO.....

So he has now found one off a motor out of Washington and its getting
overnighted to him with everything included. So hopefully I will have that tomorrow. I can't go any farther in my swap until I get the correct oil pan, so I can drop the motor into the 4runner and start working on fitment issues. If I don't get the oil pan soon, there is no way I can make my dealine for making to the 'Con over 4th of July weekend. Heck tonight I think I'm going to have to work on the wiring without the motor even being in the rig!


Project Quasimodo
'85 Xtra Cab (2wd, 22RTE, Auto => 4wd, 3RZ, w56, 2.28x4.70)

Re: 4RnrRick is getting a 7M-GE / 7MGE Motor swap [Re: 4RnrRick] #611528 06/22/05 04:06 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 259
4
4RnrRick Offline OP
Mudrunner
Well I didn't get much done last night....

The easy thing I did was I got the fuel line extended using some fuel line hose and hose clamps. I know its not pretty but it should work. Hopefully later on I will be able to find a company that can make me a nice line for it.

[Linked Image]

Then I started trying to tackle the wiring!! What a nightmare. I'm no wiz when it comes to wiring but I do feel comfortable doing it. The main problems I'm having is that all the info I've found on the web doing this swap refers to a donor Supra vehicle where I'm using a Cressida as the donor. So with the great knowledge of toyota, ALL the main connectors that everyone refers to are totally different!!! Different color, Different shape, different number of conductors, etc.... Plus my donor vehicle is a 1989 and the FSM's I'm borrwing is for a 1991 cressida and the CD I got off ebay is for a 1989 Supra. And the chiltons I have just SUCKS!!! I think, I've figured out the main differences but I still feel LOST!!!!!

[Linked Image]

So basically all I did was just start tracing and labeling all the plugs on the harness to figure out what goes where. Plus that will also hopefully help me out on figureing out what I can cut out of the harness. Then I found what I believe are the main plugs to splice everything into my 4runner harness and now I'm trying to identify what each wire does.....

[Linked Image]

Hopefully my oil pan comes in today so when I go to pick that up and can stop off at Sky's shop to see exactly what they did on their project 4Runner.


Project Quasimodo
'85 Xtra Cab (2wd, 22RTE, Auto => 4wd, 3RZ, w56, 2.28x4.70)

Re: 4RnrRick is getting a 7M-GE / 7MGE Motor swap [Re: 4RnrRick] #611529 06/22/05 06:19 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 259
4
4RnrRick Offline OP
Mudrunner
Let me explain some of my confusion here about teh wiring harness so you can see what I'm facing and hopefully someone that has does the swap with a Cressida harness can chime in and help me out.....

Please remember that the info below is from what I remember from dealing with it from about 6:00pm until 12:30am last night... So its probably close but don't take it as the truth if I called somethign wrong or didn't remember the exact number of wire in a plug.

See for a Supra swap you have three main connectors. C1, B1 and M1. C1 is suppose to have 5 wires and is next to the plenum. B1 has like 22 wires and is next to the ECU and M1 has like 6 wires and is next to the ECU. That is for the Supra harness. The cressida is different! the connector next to the plenum is B1 and has 3 wires. then the large plug that is suppose too have 22 wire next to the ECU is now actually two plugs B2 (12 wires) & B3 (10 wires) on the cressida harness. and the supra M1 plug on the cressida is called C1. Also note that these connectors are different shapes from teh cressida harness to teh supra harness.

So you can se how this is confusing.... not only did the names and shapes of the plugs change but a couple of them just switched names.....

Supra(C1) = Cressida(B1)
Supra(B1) = Cressida(B2 & B3)
Supra(M1) = Cressida(C1)

So after I figured that out then I looked at my supra info and compared a specific wire in the supra info to my cressida info for the symiliar plug and then seen if I could find that wire on my harness. in doing this I started to understand how to read the schematics quicker and easier. also in this process I had to strip the tape off several areas of the harness to trace the wires to try to understand where they went and why. So by the end of the night I was just flipping thorough the cressida manual looking for plug designations (like #7 & #12 terminal on B3 connection goes to the neutral start switch) and then if the wires matched the color and traced to approximately the correct location, I would label them with their actual function so when I got read to cut and splice I know what I was doing. But one part that I'm really confused on is I'm not sure what to do with one of the plugs coming out of the ECU since it goes into the main bundle under the cressida dash and not to the main engine harness like the other two plug coming out of the ECU.....


Project Quasimodo
'85 Xtra Cab (2wd, 22RTE, Auto => 4wd, 3RZ, w56, 2.28x4.70)

Re: 4RnrRick is getting a 7M-GE / 7MGE Motor swap [Re: 4RnrRick] #611530 06/23/05 08:34 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 259
4
4RnrRick Offline OP
Mudrunner
So the wrecking yard finally got the 7M supra oil pan, pickup tube, dip stick and dip stick tube in today from Washington. So I got it all cleaned up and ready to bolt in when I discovered a major problem!! I should have also had them get me the supra oil pump and hard line! I've read about other people just swaping pans with the parts I listed above and no mention of the oil pumps being different. ARGH....

So this basically screws me on being able to go to the 'Con 4th of July weekend because with this screw up, I just don't see it happening. Not that big of a deal, but I was wanting to go. So atleast I can now lighten up on my tight schedule and get more sleep! Working a full time job in the day and the working at this at night untill 11:00-12:00 and only getting 5 hours of sleep is really start to wear on me....

So anyways I'm now going to have to find the correct oil pan and hardline before I can install the motor into the 4runner.

So now to explain what is going on here..... The cressida oil pan is a front sump. The supra oil pan is a center sump. Toyota never made a rear sump for the 7M. And since I've got crossover steering and very little lift, the front sump oil pan was just not going to work! So here is a comparision shot to show the difference.

[Linked Image]

And here is a shot of the pick up tubes. Notice how the supra pickup tube has a different flange on it then the cressida..... well right there that tells me I need to get a supra oil pump. by the time I figured this out I was only able to call one local parts house that was still open and I got a quote of $308 for a new oil pump and I'm assuming that is probably a reman with a core charge.

[Linked Image]

The other problem with the cressida oil pump is the hard line hangs down too far for the supra oil pan. So I'll also have to get a new one of those. but heres a picture of the cressida oil pump and hardline that won't work.

[Linked Image]

The other issue to tackle is the dip stick. as seen in this picture the red circle shows the boss on the block for the supra dip stick tube and the blue circle is for the cressida. Well if you try to put a cressida dip stick into a supra oil pan it will hit the bottom of the pan prematurely. I was just going to drill out the supra boss (as I have read on the web previously) and install a supra dip stick tube but I think I found a quicker and cleaner solution.

[Linked Image]

If you put a 90 degree twist in the cressida dip stick that will allow the end of the stick to flex to the left and slide down into the pan farther. so thats what I tried and it looks like its going to work out good.

[Linked Image]

After I got that all figured out I started working on the wiring harness some more. Luckily I was able to get to Sky's shop and look over his 4runner some more and I got some more notes about how his was done..... since his came from a cressida like mine....

[Linked Image]

But really its not as bad as it looks right there since the coiled up wires are ones that I've already pulled out of the main harness and those are the one I need.

[Linked Image]


Project Quasimodo
'85 Xtra Cab (2wd, 22RTE, Auto => 4wd, 3RZ, w56, 2.28x4.70)

Re: 4RnrRick is getting a 7M-GE / 7MGE Motor swap [Re: 4RnrRick] #611531 06/23/05 03:48 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 259
4
4RnrRick Offline OP
Mudrunner
Here is a picture of the Supra oil pump and hardline that I need....

[Linked Image]


Project Quasimodo
'85 Xtra Cab (2wd, 22RTE, Auto => 4wd, 3RZ, w56, 2.28x4.70)

Re: 4RnrRick is getting a 7M-GE / 7MGE Motor swap [Re: 4RnrRick] #611532 06/24/05 06:36 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 259
4
4RnrRick Offline OP
Mudrunner
First, I heard that the wrecking yard has found a couple of oil pumps that they are going to get pulled and checked out for me. So that will save me a bunch of money because a oil pump for a Supra is like $230 and then I'd have to buy about another $50 of stuff from the dealer for the hardline. The wrecking yard said that the price would be around $40-$50.... If I don't like the condition of the oil pumps, I guess I will just have to buy new.....

Well I worked on the wiring some more tonight. I finally traced all the wires out of the engine harness, ECU, Starter relay, Fuel Pump Relay & Circuit Opening relay. This is everything that I got rid of so far!

[Linked Image]

And here is the pile of tape I unwrapped.....

[Linked Image]

And now this harness is looking more manageable. But there is still a lot of wires that I don't need that I'm weeding through one at a time. I figure just take it slow and steady and don't eliminate anything until I know I don't need it.

[Linked Image]


Project Quasimodo
'85 Xtra Cab (2wd, 22RTE, Auto => 4wd, 3RZ, w56, 2.28x4.70)

Re: 4RnrRick is getting a 7M-GE / 7MGE Motor swap [Re: 4RnrRick] #611533 06/25/05 07:40 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 259
4
4RnrRick Offline OP
Mudrunner
Well the wrecking yard couldn't find a good oil pump locally so I told them to forget about it and I bought a new one off of Ebay for $85.25....

Then I called up Toyota and bought a new hardline, banjo gasket, and compression sleeve for a 1989 Supra 7M-GE since those are the only other parts that are not idnetical from the 1989 Cressida that I need for the oil pan conversion. So by the end of next week, I should hopefully have those parts.

Now for some Tech....The 22RE and the 7M AFM have the same bolt pattern on them for the filter charger adapter. But the 22RE has a smaller square in the middle. So I took my old adapter and had the hole in the middle enlarged to the size required for the 7M which was 9/16" bigger... Thats going to let a lot more air into this motor... BTW I know I need to clean the Filter.....

[Linked Image]

I also went and bought a label maker so I could make nice labels for the wiring harness. My plan is to just wrap them up in the harness so if I ever have any issues down the road it won't be such a nightmare to figure out. I also eliminated another 13 wires and still got more to go!

[Linked Image]


Project Quasimodo
'85 Xtra Cab (2wd, 22RTE, Auto => 4wd, 3RZ, w56, 2.28x4.70)

Re: 4RnrRick is getting a 7M-GE / 7MGE Motor swap [Re: 4RnrRick] #611534 06/26/05 03:07 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 259
4
4RnrRick Offline OP
Mudrunner
Well I got the wiring harness all figured out (I think)! So I figured I better do a write-up now that its fresh in my head. I donÆt have it connected to the 4runner wiring yet, but everything is labeled and ready to go. IÆve got 30 connections that I need to make but thatÆs EVERYTHING to make all the gauges work, relays, grounds, fuel pump resistor, back up lights, 4wd indicator, ECU, etc. I hear you only technically need about 10-12 wires to make it run but I wanted to try to do it right the first time and not have to patch stuff in after the fact.

[Linked Image]

****************************************************************

Currently I could not find any good information on the web regarding what had to be done to the Cressida wiring harness to be able to wire the motor for a motor swap since the Supra and Cressida wiring harnesses are different. So with the resources of Cressida and Supra Factory Electrical Manuals, the info IÆve found on the web for the Supra swap and info I received from two locals that have done the swap using a Cressida, I starting striping my donor harness down one wire at a time. Basically what I did was just find all the wires that went to the motor and kept those while I cut everything else out and labeling everything as I go. After I got that done I took what I had left over and compiled the follow info:

Important Wiring Connections for 1989 Toyota Cressida, Non-California, US model.
Please refer to a Cressida FSM for wire numbers in the plugs as I donÆt feel like scanning a picture of each plug wire configuration.
(*) = means this must be connected to the vehicles wiring

B1 Connection - Dark Gray in color - located next to the intake plenum
Refer to as C1 Connection in a Supra
Wire Number, Description, Color
#1, *IGN SW2 from AM2 Fuse, B-R
#2, *IGN SW2 from AM2 Fuse, B-R
#3, *EFI Main Relay #4*, B-R w/ Red dots

N1 Connection û Gray in color - located under the EGR
Auto Transmission Indicator Switch
Wire Number, Description, Color
#1, *Backup Light Switch, R-B
#2, *Jumper to #3 to bypass Neutral Start Switch, B
#3, *Jumper to #2 to bypass Neutral Start Switch, B-W

N15 Connection û Gray in color - located under the EGR
Auto Transmission Indicator Switch
Wire Number, Description, Color
#1, *I made this my new 4WD Indicator (was park light), G-W
#2, Ignore
#3, Ignore
#4, Ignore
#5, *Backup Light Power, Y w/Red dots
#6, Ignore

C1 Connection û White in color wrapped in foam - located next to the ECU
Refer to as M1 Connection in a Supra
Wire Number, Description, Color
#1, *Tach, B-Y w/ Silver dots
#2, *Water Temp, Y-B w/ Silver dots
#3, *Ground, Br w/ Silver dots
#4, *Oil Pressure, Y w/ Silver dots
#5, Removed from plug
#6, *New 4WD Light, G-W w/ Silver dots
#7, Removed from plug
#8, Removed from plug
#9, Removed from plug
#10, Removed from plug
#11, Removed from plug
#12, Removed from plug

T3 Connection û Dark Gray in color - plugged into the ECU
Do nothing

T4 Connection û Dark Gray in color - plugged into the ECU
Do nothing

T5 Connection û Dark Gray in color - plugged into the ECU
Wire Number, Description, Color
#1, *EFI Main Relay #2, W-R w/ Red dots
#2, *IGN Fuse, B-W w/ Silver Dots
#3, Removed from plug
#4, *EFI Main Relay #3 (M-Rel), Gray w/ Red Dots
#5, *Check Engine, TDCL (W), Y-R w/ Silver dots
#6, Fuel Pump Relay #3, G-R w/ Silver dots
#7, TDCL (TT), LG w/ Silver dots
#8, Removed from plug
#9, *Speed Sensor, V-W w/ Silver dots
#10, Removed from plug
#11, Circuit Opening Relay #3 & Starter Fuse & Cold start Injector, B w/ Red dots
#12, *EFI Main Relay #4 (+B), B-R w/ Silver dots
#13, *EFI Main Relay #4 (+B1), B-R w/ Silver dots
#14, Removed from plug
#15, Removed from plug
#16, Removed from plug
#17, Removed from plug
#18, Removed from plug
#19, Removed from plug
#20, Removed from plug
#21, Removed from plug
#22, Neutral Start Switch, B-W w/ Silver dots

T6 Connection û Dark Gray in color - Under steering column
TDCL û Toyota Diagnostic Communication Link
Remove everything from this plug except the connections from B2 & T5

B2 Connection û Dark Gray in color - small plug located next to the ECU
Refer to as part of the B1 Connection in a Supra
Wire Number, Description, Color
#1, Removed from plug
#2, Removed from plug
#3, Removed from plug
#4, Removed from plug
#5, Removed from plug
#6, Removed from plug
#7, Removed from plug
#8, Removed from plug
#9, Removed from plug
#10, Removed from plug
#11, TDCL (TE2), LG-R w/ Silver dots
#12, TDCL (TE1), LG-B w/ Silver dots
#13, TDCL (ENG), Gray w/ Silver dots
#14, TDCL (E1), Brown w/ Silver dots
#15, Removed from plug
#16, Removed from plug

B3 Connection û Dark Gray in color - large plug located next to the ECU
Refer to as part of the B1 Connection in a Supra
Wire Number, Description, Color
#1, Removed from plug
#2, Removed from plug
#3, Removed from plug
#4, *Backup Lights, R-B w/ Silver dots
#5, Fuel Pump Relay #1, Circuit Opening Relay #1, G-W w/ Silver dots
#6, *Ground, W-B w/ Silver dots
#7, *Starter Relay #4, B-W
#8, *AC / OBA Clutch, B w/ Red dots
#9, *Starter Fuse #4, Circuit Opening Relay #3, Cold Start Injector, B w/ Silver dots
#10, Removed from plug
#11, Circuit Relay #4, G w/ Silver dots
#12, *Starter Fuse #1, B
#13, *Backup Light Power from Engine Fuse, Y w/ Silver dots
#14, Removed from plug

Circuit Opening Relay
Located in the RH side kick panel of donor Cressida
Wire Number, Description, Color
#1, Fuel Pump Relay #1, B3{#5}, G-W
#2, *EFI Main Relay #4, B-R
#3, Starter Fuse #4, T5{#11}, B3{#9}, B w/ Silver dots
#4, B3{#11}, G w/ Silver dots
#5, Removed
#6, *Ground, W-B w/ Silver dots

Fuel Pump Relay
Located in the RH side kick panel of donor Cressida
Wire Number, Description, Color
#1, Circuit Opening Relay #1, G-W
#2, Fuel Pump Resistor #1, G-B w/ Red dots
#3, T5{#6}, G-R w/ Silver dots
#4, *Fuel Pump, Fuel Pump Resistor #2, B-R

The items/connections that IÆm reusing from my 85 4runner originally equipped with a 22RE are as folllows:

EFI Fuse
Alternator Wiring
4Runner fuse box
SR5 dash
SR5 oil pressure sender


Project Quasimodo
'85 Xtra Cab (2wd, 22RTE, Auto => 4wd, 3RZ, w56, 2.28x4.70)

Re: 4RnrRick is getting a 7M-GE / 7MGE Motor swap [Re: 4RnrRick] #611535 06/26/05 03:56 AM
Anonymous
Unregistered
You've done an incredible job with your swap so far. I'd love to see it in action!!! If you want to go wheeling email me: venturer@gitout.com or www.gitout.com

Nice work. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

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