Paul
My manual is for 1981. This explains the difference. If I could get my computer to delete the half-loaded software for my scanner, so I could properly load it, then I could actually scan these pags for you to look at. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/angry.gif" alt="" />

I tested the other three injectors this morning, and two opened at 750 psi, one at 950 psi. Real nice. They sprayed better than the first one, though still not too good. If I pumped faster, they misted much better. I'm going to try setting them to about 1500 and watching how they spray then. They may not be too bad. I'm going to rebuild them anyway, throw them in the truck, then do the current set if required. I should clean up the head, throw some rings and bearings in the old motor, just to have it as a running motor instead of for parts. I expected to find burnt pistons or something when I took the head off, but nothing, and very little wear in the cylinders. Also, this engine has the oil pan to fit an S10, and I have a second bellhousing to fit a Borg-Warner T5. The vacuum pump was even working when the engine came out.
Funny about the VW injector similarity, 'cause when I looked at them I thought they looked a lot like the ones in the Jettas I used to have. This is great, as it makes it a lot easier for me to locate parts. The nearest Isuzu dealer is 100 miles away, the nearest VW half that. Most people haven't heard of an Isuzu diesel pickup around here, but diesel VW's are common. I'll make a few calls tomorrow to locate some injector parts.

I'm not sure what to think about the oil brew. I believe that is what caused the build-up, but I can't figure why. I could see it from used motor oil that is full of carbon and stuff, but this stuff is fairly clean. Temp of the oil make a difference? Did this happen because the engine was cold at first switchover? If so, why? It ran fine, no different than diesel when the engine was hot or cold, until after a week of it or so. I have some un-mixed transmission/hydraulic fluid, called Permatran, that I think I will filter and run mixed with diesel in my second tank and see what happens. I had some regular hyraulic oil mixed with the first batch.

Thanks again for the input and info. It's always appreciated.

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

Guys, I have a theory about the accumulation on the carbon etc on the injector. My brother has an 84 Rabbit diesle. I removed the head and durning the clean up process Inotoced the intake valve stems on 2 cylinders had a lot of firmly stuck on, black greasy gunk. I discovered that the valve stem seals (common situation on an older engine) were shot. Some of the oil was being drawn in past the seals and it accumulated on the stems, and got "baked" on.
COuld a similar situation be happening with the trans oil mix? Essentially some tranny oil getting baked on to the injector? I know this is just a wild guess. Thought I'd toss it out for chit-chat.
Regards.
Eric

After reading the post about the injector port blockage and your hard starting I removed my injectors for a look see. I found the same blockage in the head below the injector in my N/A engine. It was a dry crusty material tan to brown in color. The injectors are spraying in a narrow pencil pattern. I can not tell the breaking pressure yet as I am waiting for my tester. The time line story of this engine follows:

engine cranked and ran well on diesel,
started with a blend of WVO and unleaded....in the first few hundred miles it did fine, then hard starting and filter plugging was getting very bad, advanced the timing 4? and the cranking improved greatly but the filter plugging still bad. At about 1500 miles on WVO I decided to try WMO blend.

I left the timing advanced and with the WMO blend it cranked better and no more filter plugging.....about 6000 miles so far on WMO blend on this truck.....

Now finding the injector port blockage and removing it, I thought crap, better check the compression. When running the WVO I checked it and found about 400 lbs. across the board and concluded the low compression was a big part of the hard starting. Now the compression reads about 450 lbs. across the board. Now the Big question is the compression increase due to carbon build up or the WMO sealing the rings???

After cleaning the ports out I installed the pencil spraying injectors and it does start better than it did.

With all of this new info it has left me questioning some of my conclusions about using WMO or WVO in a blend at this time. After I receive my injector tester I will start from scratch and see if I my conclusions were correct or not. The turbo engine now has about 2000 miles on the WMO blend and starts and runs just as well as on diesel. I never tried WVO in that truck.
Suggestions welcomed.
crossbones

Bones,
WVO..versus WMO (Waste Motor Oil).
Just a comment. THe original engine designed byMr. Diesel ran on what fuel...yup. Peanut oil. Apparently Diesel worked for some sort of food business that had accumulated a bunch of WVO (peanut) The boss wanted to get rid of the oil and Mr. Dielse built an engine to run on it. Motor oil has apparently a significant numbers of other compounds in it for a variety of LUBRICATING requirements. Is it possible that the various additives/chemical as precluding a nice clean burn that you would otherwise see with WVO or Bio-Diesel?

Eric

Hey guys - I've been following this thread and thought I'd add a link to another forum/topic regarding unheated blends (or perhaps simply blends in general):
SVO discussion forums

A lot to wade through, but much good discussion on potential trouble caused by running blends and some solutions. The topic sort of shifts from one member's problem to other issues... as forums are wont to do, I suppose.

It's also a great site, generally, for anyone interested in these sorts of topics. I'd encourage people to have a good look around for some ideas on running SVO, blends, WMO or anything other than diesel fuel. Here is the main forum index.

Hello list. I have been a avid reader of many forums about using VO in diesels including the biodiesel info pop which there is a wealth of good info. As I believe there is no cookie cutter way of using VO or WMO for all engines or truck to truck. I have tried to find ways that work for the engine that we use. I have intentionally set up tests to see if I would have to same problem as reported on other engines. I try very hard to post ideas that I have made a reasonable conclusion on. I do not want to mislead anyone. If I find something that could be misleading I will openly post it. I believe the fact that both Zack and I have plugged injector port issues is very important as we both have used VO and WMO. This issue makes my previous posts of being successful using WMO or VO very suspect and caution should be used in reading my posts. At this time I think (unproven yet) that this build up in the injector port comes from the injector pressure not set to the optimum setting for the fuel which includes temperature and viscosity that you are using. There is no doubt that these engines can run on VO,WMO or many other fuels. My quest is doing so for hundred's of thousands of trouble free miles and hopefully with equal or less emissions than today's diesels. The trucking industry has logged billions of miles with WMO added to there diesel tanks. I have a lot to learn...........comments welcomed.

crossbones

I tried tightening the springs down on 2 injectors, and although it took more pressure to open them, they didn't spray any better. I'll have to take them apart and see what nozzle they have in them, then get some parts.
The truck is still running the same since I cleaned the injectors, which feels better than it has worked in a long time. I can't comment on the fuel mileage, as I haven't been tracking it lately, using the aux tank all the time, with diesel only. I'm hesitant to run permatrans through again, but seeing how it didn't appear to do any permanent damage, I may give it a go. I'm not convinced yet that the cold engine was the culprit, but I am persuaded to believe it is the oil itself that caused it. It isn't a clear, golden color like used canola, or even new engine oil, but more like used engine oil, though not a black color. As I haven't tested the injectors in the truck, perhaps they are a problem (if they can be), as crossbones suggested.
I'll keep you all informed.

Called a supplier of nozzles for my injectors, and according to her info, they are Zexel injectors, though the nozzles match the Bosch ones a friend showed me that were out of an old Jetta, other than the numbers weren't exactly the same.
I can get them for $20 and change each, plus tax (of course <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />) and shipping. She says they are a common injector, therefore less expensive.

Goody for me! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

Zack--

I think $20 is a good price for the nozzles, either Canadian or American.

Yes, the fuel system on the C223's was made by Diesel Kiki (now Zexel and now owned by Bosch). And, I suppose that there are different p/n's on the same part from Zexel and Bosch.

New nozzles should give the proper spray pattern and some better running. Keep us posted.

Paul

Hello list. Injector update: I found that the injectors past the dribble test but were popping off at (2 @1300, 2 @1350 lbs.) and the spray patterns were not good. I tested them using the blend that I have been using to get a view of what the engine is seeing with the blend. I have the nozzles soaking in sodium hydroxide (oven cleaner) and they seam to be cleaning up nicely. What "appears" to be coming out of the nozzles is gelled veggie oil as it looks like the same as samples of veggie oil that I left out to (air dry) for several weeks. More to come as I get them clean and set the pop off at 1493 lbs. and see if the correct pattern of spray returns.

Side bar: When I purchased this truck the owner said he had the injectors tested a few thousand miles ago. So I called the mechanic that did the test. " Yea, I tested them, the only way to test them is to crack the injector line when running and if the motor dies down some they are just fine." uuuuuummmm MY mistake for not testing before starting my test of veggie oil and WMO.

So far the only info I can find about the nozzle profile used in the N/A engine is the following:

numbers on nozzle: DNOSD 193
Bosch type number. DN12SD12T

not sure about this decoding?????
Ex. DN0SD273
D= Nozzle
N= Pintle nozzle; L= hole type; S= hole type seat nozzle (additional: L= long nozzle collar; without initial= short collar) (A/B/Z/without initial= details about fixing of the inlet)
0= spray cone angle
S= 17mm collar diameter; P = 14mm, R = 16mm, S = 17mm, T = 22mm, U = 30mm, V = 42mm, W = 50mm
D= standard nozzle/ P= experimental type

D = Nozzle (or Deuchland for Bosch?)

[BD]L = Short stem nozzle (Hole type)

[BD]LL = Long stem nozzle (Hole type)

[BD]N = Pintle Nozzle

[BDN]0 = Spray cone Angle

[BDN0]S = 6 mm nozzle needle diameter

[BDN0S]D = Delay type nozzle (with obturator)

[BDN0S]273 = Unique Identifier (special features)
These include pintle profile (converging/diverging), flow lift curve details, anti-coking flats etc. This number simply increments as a new design requirement is requested.

I called a local diesel injector rebuilder/parts supplier and found that the DNOSD 193 nozzle has not been superceded and is available at $15.74. I have two thoughts concerning the fact that this nozzle has not been superceded over a 20+ year time. One of the best cost savings for a manufacturer is cut the SKU's (stock keeping units) by using one number to replace two or more numbers. So, does this nozzle have a unique pintle profile or perhaps is it also used in a high volume application such as in industrial engines, maybe the C240.......any thoughts???

crossbones