Hey all, been a while since I been on the board. Been waiting for a nice time to start working on the beast again. Anyway I am still plauges with some starting issues on my trooper. It all started a while back when I redid the heads on the engine (my first time) and was unable to start the engine afterwards. It would always sound like it didnt have enough power to start. Anyway after about a dozen starters (autozone lifetime warrenty <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/butwiggle.gif" alt="" />) and a new ring gear, I am still having issues.

I do have the 3.4L engine swap but it was a new GM goodwrench engine so the starter is still on the drivers side and in the OEM position etc.

Here is my problem.

At the moment the starter either spins out (not connecting to teeth enough to spin motor) or it doesnt have enough oomph to spin the enigine, depending on how many shims I use. This always seemed to be my problem from the beginning, I am pretty possitive it was due to a warn ring gear and replaced it. When I put the new starter on the new ring gear I used the maximum amount of shims that come with the starter, 2. It started fine and sounded "alright" I assumed it was ok untill roughly a month it was unable to start the trooper.

Things that I have checked:
-replaced possitive battery cable
-replaced starter numerous times
-newish battery interstate brand (able to try starting all day long)
-checked starting relay

Now when I take the starter out now and look at the teeth on the ring gear they dont look new anymore. Definitly could be the same problem again but my question is, how did this happen. How can I prevent it from happeneing. Is there any chance it could be soemthing else that doesnt involve me removing the tranny again <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/barf.gif" alt="" />!!!

Have you tried readjusting your valve lash?If its too tight , I think it makes the engine harder to turn over at startup.
Another suggestion , have you tried going with a high torque starter?I'm going brand new with my starter on my swap , and am debating with a standard one , or spend the extra 60 and get a smaller , high torque starter.I have to make up my mind by thursday when I go get the rest of my parts for putting the engine back together fully <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

Barak may be on to something. What lash spec did you use when you did your 3.4? It is not the same as the 2.8.

The engine turns very easily with a wrench when the spark plugs are out. Its been a while since I messed with the valve lash but I am pretty certain I got the data from ED and he seems to know all on the 3.4L and I trust his word. I'll double check it though. My current situation with the starter is, if I go down to one shim, it wont turn and it sounds way too close, like the starter teeth bind up in the flywheel teeth. If I put 2 shims on it will maybe start but it sounds like its too fare away and it often just spins freely. Its as if the teeth were ground enough to not catch. Its really quite wierd. I have checked the start numerous time to make sure it pops out fine, and if I push the car in gear to turn the flywheel a little sometimes the next tooth is high enough for the starter to grab and start. I assume the teeth are worn un even and causing my delima but it is a brand new ring gear and I only used it a month or so. It didnt sound right when starting the whole time but it always worked fine.

How much do the teeth have to be worn to cause the teeth on the starter to not mesh with the ring gear?

If its that worn down , maybe its your flexplate teeth that are a little off?When I put my engine together , everything on it is new , including flexplate , this way I should have no problems down the road with all new parts , well , except the cam , timing cover , oil pump , those are the originals <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> A new flexplate is cheap , and if that solves your problem , easy fix , just a bummer to have to pull your tranny again.

Isnt the flexplate the same thing as the flywheel, and dont u call the teeth on the flywheel the ring gear??? ANyway I did replace the teath but just had the flywheel resurfaced. Thats why I find it disturbing that its already ground down again (if thats the problem).....

well, now you know why it's called a lifetime warranty == you're guaranteed a lifetime of replacing that part over and over and over again.

did you put in the first "lifetime" starter when you put in the rebuilt engine?

if so, would seem a pretty good bet that

1. the throw of this starter's pinion gear doesn't match your engine/trans setup; and futzing with guessing-game shims isn't going to help much

2. is it possible that this starter's pinion gear tooth pattern doesn't match your ring gear?

wouldn't you be better off going to the dealer or a parts place that can give you the exact oem part? can't see how you want to save a bit of money at autozone only to keep replacing that thing again and again ==

must be frustrating

good luck

With my new parts for the 3.4 swap , I made sure to get the parts from a 90 trooper for the starter and flexplate applications.As for flexplate and flywheel , they are basicaly the same , the flywheel is for manual trans and the flexplate is for auto , although some places call both a flywheel.
Something is definately wrong if its grinding teeth off right away , like the teeth aren't matching up properly , whether the starter is off , or the flexplate teeth aren't in sync.Did you get a flywheel for a trooper when you put your truck back together?Or did you use the 3.4 one?My engine didn't come with one , so I can't tell you for sure if the teeth would match up or not , I just went out and bought brand new for 50 bucks.

Are you using the shims that came with the old Trooper 2.8?

If (1) shim isn't enough and (2) shims are too much, you probably need to get a 'shim kit' for GM starter and try different thicknesses of shims until the shim pack is correct. The shim kit is pretty cheap and any auto parts store should have one in stock.

Try using a combination of shims that's slightly thinner than the (2) shims you're using and see how that goes.

BTW a man trans flywheel from a Camaro definitely won't work on a 3.4 Trooper conversion, and I don't think a Camaro auto trans flexplate would work, either. The only applications that would work correctly are from either similar-year S-10's or the original stuff from the Trooper 2.8.

HTH..............ed

Ok I am not sure which flywheel I used, my old mechanic did it and I wouldn't put it past him to put a freaking vw flywheel on there considering the starter never sounded good ever since the swap. When I redid the heads It still had the original stater on there and it didnt even want to turn, unless I took the spark plugs out. I tried many many times to start it and eventually burnt out the starter and started my lovely autozone starter swapping program. ANyway I would love to get a really good brand starter so let me know where to get the best one??? Here is some pictures of the flywheel & starter when I replaces the clutch:

http://pictures.sunthief.com/?page=...s/Isuzu_Trooper/parts/Clutch_Replacement

How can I tell what flywheel is on there? WHen I asked for the ring gear they ended up having to get a ring gear off an isuzu car, but it was in canada so who knows what system there computers use. I tried startering the car with the tranny out just to see why it spins and the gear pops out and trys to mesh with the flywheel and either spins the flywheel a little but eventually gets to a point where the teeth were wore down a little more then the rest and couldnt touch anymore. So its like the ring gear teath were wore down differently around the ring and was impossable to properly shim for that. either its too close or its too fare away depending on where the starter was around the ring. Very annoying. I dont know if its doing the same thing now but If I use 2 shims, the starter spins but not the engine and if I use one shim is just wont spin every time, like its too close and binding up. Let me know a good place to buy the BEST starter and I will get it cuz I am definitly sick of this. Is there anyway to make sure the starter is shimmed correctly when the tranny is in??? I dont see how it could be possable to put that rod in the teeth when the starter is in the way???? THanks for all the advice guys, I like the way your comming up with new ideas!