Pete I did not say it inhibits corrosion. I said ethylene glycol dos not cause corrosion by itself.
I'd be willing to place a wager that LAWYERS are the cause of Anti-freeze always being recommended at a 50-50 mix. This is near the max lowest freezing temp for it and liability gets very limited if that mix is advised.
I am not aware of a single boderline system that needs all the help it can get to prevent overheating! PERIOD!
The nascar race on the past Sunday had several cars running 190+ MPH at 250*F for several laps with only pure WATER in their systems. None had ill effects from that temp. Seeing 210/220* on a gauge scares the hell out of the driver... but it has only good effects on the engine.
In actual practise using 100% ethylene glycol at temps above -10*F has no ill effect and may have a positive effect on the coolant system.. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Big Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

It's not a little lower, its a good deal lower.




I betcha I could get my yz250 to run 10 degree's hotter (which it does) running pure antifreeze. Pure water has almost twice the heat capacity as pure Ethylene Glycol.




BJ who do I have to get to tell you these facts?

ALL of my high school chemistry and physics teachers say the same thing, SO do ALL of my COLLEGE prof. ( some doctors).

There is no reason to run that extra 50% all you are doing is throwing more money at it.




If you are running your jeep in places where there is corrosive materials put on the road, there isnÆt much you can do short of buying a gold plated radiator.

Sunder I have no argument against the THEORY of ethylene glycol. Your phd's can quote book numbers all day long and it means NOTHING to the temps of the engine and the radiator.. I have run it pure for maybe 40 years in lots and lots of vehicles in the Texas heat. NEVER has the gauge showed an elevated temp. Never have I replaced a coolant pump that has been run on PURE 100%! Maybe the temps of the coolant between entering and exiting the radiator are NOT the temps being theorized on in the books. I guess I could install a sender in the exit hose of the radiator and see for myself... But what the hell, why go to the trouble? I have had no problems with the rides running 100% in 40 years so why spend the time?
Oh yeah, while I am at it. In the past 40 years no vehicle has left my shop that I have done head work or rebuilt or otherwise drained the coolant that I did not install 100% on.. ALL have went away running good and NONE ever returned with any coolant problems..
Take that to your phd's and let em look it up in their books. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Big Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

It just shows how overbuilt the stock cooling system is.

Running pure water and pure antifreeze will not effect the temperature, unless the cooling system is at the limits. What the higher specific heat means is that it has the CAPACITY to pull more heat away. Not that it nessecarily will.

What I am trying to say is, you are wasting your money. Running pure anti-freeze has no benifits. If you are running 4 lo in the sandy desert a lot, it might actually cool worse. I'm not saying you must run 50/50 or your car will overheat.

i'll be damned...guess reading does come in handy from time to time <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />always thought i was doin my car a favor runnin water in the summer after a motor swap!!don't know who told me it was corrosive, but i'll give em a kick if i figure it out....

First of all, the thermostat does nothing to cool the engine, it is a device that determines when coolant is allowed to flow between the radiator and the engine. It also regulates how fast the coolant moves through the engine.

Secondly, a 50/50 mix cools more efficiently than 100% antifreeze. Use distilled water, not tap water!

Thirdly, maybe glycol's boiling point is higher, but it is heat transfer we are after here. If pure glycol were running through the system at 300 degrees, your motor would still be toast.

Glycol lowers the freezing point of the water it is mixed with, not the other way around.

In the Nascar race, several engine failures were attributed to the overheating(Robbie Gordon comes to mind). Drivers don't get worried until over 220 degrees. Even then only for an extended run. Some drivers had to add water during the race.

Higher boiling temps and lower antifreeze protection can be obtained by going to a 75% antifreeze mixture. However, no manufacturer of either antifreeze or auto says to use 100% glycol,,,,,and in fact specifically says not to!!! I for one would not appreciate a mechanic putting something in my car that was specifically recommended against by the manufacturers of both the car and the product. Would I then get the speech about how you know so much more than all of the engineers, designers, and manufacturers?

At the very, very least you are wasting money.

Oh, and tcoff,,,,,is maybe a cat peeing on your radiator?????

a cat?!! my dog got the cat a while ago, such a good boy <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

hey guys thanks for the chemistry lesson on antifreeze...who knew!! and to think i would of gotten made fun of for reading the directions on the prestone bottle. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

so i've come to the conclusion that there is not much i can do to save the life a my radiator. so i think when i purcase my next one i'll get the lifetime warrenty on it and not have to worry about it so much. thanks for all the input... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

Tom,
your radiator should last a lot longer. What actually caused you to replace the orginal radiator? Flushing your radiator every couple of years will keep it flowing and pulling heat away from the engine effectively. Flushing will remove the acidic by-products of thermally decomposed glycol, mineral compounds, spent additives, and rust from the coolant system. Distilled water, or even "soft" water will help keep the coolant system cleaner and have less deposits. Maintaining a 50/50 to 70/30 mixture of antifreeze to water will provide freeze points of -35 to -67 degrees F (boiling points are 223 to 235 degrees F), respectively. As well as provide sufficient corrosion protection due to the additives added to antifreeze products. There isn't much I can add to what guzzi said above, everything he said was absolutely correct.

I believe you or someone was asking about a green color; I don't know if we are talking about outside the radiator, or on the inside. Many antifreeze products come with a yellow-green fluorscent dye for identification. Not all antifreeze is ethylene glycol, many antifreeze products are now propylene glycol. A green color is also indicative of copper rust compounds. If your radiator has copper coils, I guess over time a copper oxide patina/tarnish would form on the outside if not protected from evironmental conditions. My radiator fins still have black paint.

I've been thinking a lot about BigJim and his 100% EG filled coolant system. Granted, the boiling point for EG is way up there on the thermometer scale,something like 368 degrees F, plus what ever the 15 psi coolant system elevates the glycol's BP to. But the freeze protection would only be good down to about 8 degrees F. I don't see the advantage of having 100% glycol in the radiator; it's just what everyone else has been saying: The engine is seriously over-heating if the radiator coolant temperature is much over 220 degrees F. It's all about having a turbulent flow through the block to pull heat away from combustion chambers that are continuously firing at temperatures exceeding 4500 degrees F. Maintaining a clean coolant system with a 50/50 mix of antifreeze will pull sufficient amount of heat away from the block as long as the radiator is sized properly, and the water pump, thermostat, and radiator cap are all working properly. Guzzi's point about how a glycol-water mixture will pull heat away from the engine block more efficiently than a pure glycol liquid should be a definitive response to BigJim's Theory. No liquid commonly found here on Earth can tolerate absorbing as much heat as water does without flashing to vapor or thermally decomposing. But, pure water is corrosive to our coolant systems.

You know, there's one point I'd like to add, but it's probably not important in this discussion ... and that is that glycol is combustible and a toxic substance. Coolant leaks from BigJim's vehicles are much more of a concern than normally treated vehicle coolant systems.

Well I let Guzzy slide by! But when Fred chimes in on me I guess I better answer.
Hey anybody can quote the ads on the bottle and anybody can read the theory. But it seems I am the only one here that has put it to actual practise. I have heard that the desert tribes have used glycol in their rides since the 30's. Sure the label sez it freezes, and it does. Near -10 it gets slushy...not hard yet but slushy. Sure it will burn. that said now YOU make some attempts to get it to burn! I have never been able to do it. You will find it near if not completely impossible to burn it. It ain't the vapor that burns like gasoline.
Then we get to the part about it not absorbing heat.. Ok at WHAT temp is it behind water in heat absorbsion? And how MUCH behind is it? It is easy to parrot the theory and not have a clue about what it means. See this is all smoke and mirrors as far as I am concerned.
I'll say it again. I have lots and lots of pure glycol vehicles running around. Does anyone else? I have never seen a glycol fire, has anyone else?
If water is so much better that glycol why does the label say 50/50 mix when 70/30 is more water and a lower freezing point?
The truth would come out with a simple test of the radiator outlet hose temp. ONE day I will find the time and make that test.
And the 220 engine temp is completely false! Them numbers are strickly to protect the coolant from boiling out. In actual fact I'd bet the engine and it's lubricant would rather see 250/260*. Remember we are talking about iron here not the coolant. I have had drivers tell me they thought their race car went faster the last few turns before shoving a rod out.
Of course I am only talking here about vehicles that NEVER will see a temp lower than -10/15*F. Everyone else is arbitrarely left out.
We all must remember that everything we read has already been approved by the writers lawyers! When I was young we had a saying "if there is any doubt whip it out"... But the damn lawyers have changed all that.
Big Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

ok just so everyone knows i'm not having a heat issue with the radiator. it cools just fine like it should. i was just expecting to get more than 2-3years form it thats all. and was wonder if the all alluminum rad. will hold up better to the elements. as for flushing the system... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> i hate to see all that pressure put through the system. cause my understanding is they use a lot of pressure more than what the engine creates. i hear a lot of people that do get there system flushed end up with a blown motor cause something goes wrong with the flush and they end up driving down the road as all the anitfreeze leaks out, then a few day later boom!! engine gone...so i dont trust the flush all that much...

to answer the question of why did i change it the first time, it kind of sprung a leak and was falling a part. had nothing to do with the shovel incidence..dont ask...and now the rad. is turning green(fins) and really looking beat up with some rust..i'm sure it will last the winter i hope

but for the most part this thread has turned into quite the debate. which i find most interesting.. i can see bigjim point but to only run straight antifreeze...i dont think it will work up here where it gets to be -10-20 degrees weeks at a time...like he stated.. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />