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Re: WTF, Extra parts and it won't start.. [Re: conner] #653364 12/07/05 02:37 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 194
J
johnpsz Offline OP
Wheeler
Quote
Quote
Also when clocking it it is a pain in the <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/butwiggle.gif" alt="" /> to get it calibrated, the thing jumps around like crazy... Are these signs of a dead TPS?

John: If it is jumping that bad, i would replace the TPS. What was your original problem? Or i should ask what is it doing now? There is too much to comb through on this post.
Good luck
Conner

Conner,
Thanks for all the help...

I guess I will look into changing out the TPS, but let me also fill you in on what has been happening with the truck and parse out the things that might be unneeded from the post...

The original problem was not starting and not staying running when I got it started after putting everything back together when I rebuilt the motor.. The down side is I had a buddy helping me clean off parts and things so no telling what got messed up.

It started right up more or less the first time I attempted it (after plugging everything back in), there were a few problems so I killed it after a few seconds of running. It actually started and was running a couple times without problem. once I had it finally up to temp the first time it sputtered and died. I then did the tests/troubleshooting below.

I am getting spark and before when it did start it was running in correct time and running very smoothly, so timing isn't an issue...

It is getting gas and I put plenty of dry gas and high octane gas in it to get rid of any moisture in the tank, plus pulled the fuel filter a couple times and let it drain out to get moisture out since water settles to the pump pickup, before putting the dry gas in and high octane...

That left air as the culprit in my troubleshooting of the no start issue.

When I had a helper cranking it, I played with the throttle body blades to attempt to trick it into thinking there was airflow or something and with the blades slightly opened it started and ran for a while...

Rechecked timing - good
Started to take it for a quick test drive and as soon as I gave it gas it died...

I then cleaned the IAC because it was gunked up because my buddy was using parts cleaner and spraying it all over everything and even dipping the intake (with TB and all sensors attached) into little puddles of parts cleaner/gas...

After cleaning the IAC it started and seem to run forever it idled in front of the house for about an hour or so. I decided then it must be doing pretty good. I went to start the breakin process and as soon as I gave it a decent amount of gas it died again this time it was a little different. I was going about 10 MPH, and gave it about 60% or a little more throttle, it downshifted to 1st gear felt like it started to pull pretty good for about 2 seconds then stumbled, the stumble stayed for about another second and I got scared and got off the gas. I then coasted down to the stop sign ahead, while coasting the idle was really low, about 4-500 RPM's, as soon as the truck was about to stop or just about when it stopped the truck stalled and wouldn't restart...

After that with Franks help we tested the IAC and it tested in spec, then in rereading my posts frank saw that I had someone trying to start it while I played with the throttle blades and suggested checking out the TPS (Middle of page 3), and at the top of page 4, I give him the results and he requested you to help...


John Pszenyczniak
67 Mustang Coupe
95 Firebird Formula
05 Ram hemi 4x4
91 Montero RS LWB w/ 320k miles before rebuild, 900 down and its still kicking!!!
Re: WTF, Extra parts and it won't start.. [Re: johnpsz] #653365 12/07/05 02:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,238
FrankR Offline
Web Wheeler
****
John -

Are you ABSOLUTELY sure the distributor is installed correctly?

Frank


'89 [color:"white"]G-Raider[color:"white"] [color:"black"]Supercharged 3.0L, MegaSquirt 2, lockup A/T, 2.5" exhaust, 172k, Cibie H4s/Oscar SCs, Hella Micro DE fogs, Cobra CB, Superwinch hubs, LSD rear/Aussie Locker front, Bilsteins, Lifeline AGM, Rust-Oleum
Re: WTF, Extra parts and it won't start.. [Re: FrankR] #653366 12/07/05 03:02 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 194
J
johnpsz Offline OP
Wheeler
Quote
John -

Are you ABSOLUTELY sure the distributor is installed correctly?

Frank


Yes, But with every time I get asked that I might be starting to wonder... I did it by the method you explained in other posts... I can search for the post but I followed those instructions to the T and everything ran fine for a while and then cut out and it hasn't restarted. It was running smooth... Would it still run right, or cause intermitant starting isues if it was off? and the only amount it would be off would be a full 360* at the crank and I would think at that point it wouldn't have run at all??? I know everything is dead on but the only thing that I am even slightly wavering on is if it was 360* off (TDC on the wrong stroke)...

Last edited by johnpsz; 12/07/05 03:04 AM.

John Pszenyczniak
67 Mustang Coupe
95 Firebird Formula
05 Ram hemi 4x4
91 Montero RS LWB w/ 320k miles before rebuild, 900 down and its still kicking!!!
Re: WTF, Extra parts and it won't start.. [Re: johnpsz] #653367 12/07/05 05:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,238
FrankR Offline
Web Wheeler
****
Some engines will cross-fire enough inside the distributor to seemingly run fine mis-timed... up to a couple thousand rpms with no load - but when you put a load on them, they lay down and die.

Check it to make certain it's timed at TDC on the compression stroke - doesn't cost a thing and you can be sure.

Frank

Last edited by FrankR; 12/07/05 05:26 AM.

'89 [color:"white"]G-Raider[color:"white"] [color:"black"]Supercharged 3.0L, MegaSquirt 2, lockup A/T, 2.5" exhaust, 172k, Cibie H4s/Oscar SCs, Hella Micro DE fogs, Cobra CB, Superwinch hubs, LSD rear/Aussie Locker front, Bilsteins, Lifeline AGM, Rust-Oleum
Re: WTF, Extra parts and it won't start.. [Re: FrankR] #653368 12/07/05 01:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 644
C
conner Offline
Rock Warrior
John; We have to narrow down what we are losing when it cuts out. Have you checked fuel pressure when this occurs? If fuel pressure and volume are ok and the injectors are not partialy blocked, I would concentrate on ignition. A bad coil would act as you describe. Have you hooked up a voltmeter to the O2 sensor and monitored the signal when it is cutting out?
Conner


Over the hill but still climbing.
88 Montero 2.6L auto, manual hubs, cooling fan conversion gps,recurved distributor,LSD Diff.
Re: WTF, Extra parts and it won't start.. [Re: conner] #653369 12/07/05 02:30 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 194
J
johnpsz Offline OP
Wheeler
I can't even get it started anymore to check what happens when it cuts out, the last 2 time it cut out were when I was on the road and in no position to get any testing done. Now it will not even start.


John Pszenyczniak
67 Mustang Coupe
95 Firebird Formula
05 Ram hemi 4x4
91 Montero RS LWB w/ 320k miles before rebuild, 900 down and its still kicking!!!
Re: WTF, Extra parts and it won't start.. [Re: johnpsz] #653370 12/07/05 03:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 644
C
conner Offline
Rock Warrior
Ok: Thats a good thing.
Do we have:
Fuel pressure?
Good blue spark?
Compression?
Are the plugs clean?
If by chance we have all four, remove the two rear spark plugs and see if it makes an attempt to start.
Conner


Over the hill but still climbing.
88 Montero 2.6L auto, manual hubs, cooling fan conversion gps,recurved distributor,LSD Diff.
Re: WTF, Extra parts and it won't start.. [Re: conner] #653371 12/26/05 08:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 194
J
johnpsz Offline OP
Wheeler
Frank I rechecked the dizzy, and it was dead on, as was belt orientation. I did worry that I might have had the dizzy turned 180*, but after rechecking it all was good. Then I went through Conners test below, my results in red...

Quote
Ok: Thats a good thing.
Do we have:
Fuel pressure? [color:"red"] Good [/color]
Good blue spark? [color:"red"] No Good [/color]
Compression? [color:"red"] Good [/color]
Are the plugs clean? [color:"red"] No Good [/color]
If by chance we have all four, remove the two rear spark plugs and see if it makes an attempt to start. [color:"red"] It seemed to try a little. [/color]
Conner


When checking spark I notice it was a light orange spark and not a lot of force behind it, and thought it might be getting blown out. I went out got new plugs, wires, cap and rotor, and a new air filter. Put it all together and guess what? Yeah it started right up, let it warm up set ignition timing, all good, took it on test drives around the block a few times, still good. I then changed the fluids and made sure everything was OK to start the break-in and hit the road, I went to the store and back without problems and everything is running OK.

I guess there was something in the new set of wires, plugs, cap and rotor after the initial install that was bad, maybe bad wires. But after replaced them all and everything seems to be running right now...

Thanks for all the help guys...
Frank you not in the area but, Conner I owe you at least a beer <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />, you are both welcome here anytime though.


John Pszenyczniak
67 Mustang Coupe
95 Firebird Formula
05 Ram hemi 4x4
91 Montero RS LWB w/ 320k miles before rebuild, 900 down and its still kicking!!!
Re: WTF, Extra parts and it won't start.. [Re: johnpsz] #653372 12/26/05 09:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,238
FrankR Offline
Web Wheeler
****
Good news! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> That's a strange one, alright. Glad it's running ok.

Frank


'89 [color:"white"]G-Raider[color:"white"] [color:"black"]Supercharged 3.0L, MegaSquirt 2, lockup A/T, 2.5" exhaust, 172k, Cibie H4s/Oscar SCs, Hella Micro DE fogs, Cobra CB, Superwinch hubs, LSD rear/Aussie Locker front, Bilsteins, Lifeline AGM, Rust-Oleum
Re: WTF, Extra parts and it won't start.. [Re: FrankR] #653373 12/28/05 01:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 644
C
conner Offline
Rock Warrior
What Frank said> Good luck
Conner


Over the hill but still climbing.
88 Montero 2.6L auto, manual hubs, cooling fan conversion gps,recurved distributor,LSD Diff.
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