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 Re: Portal Axles/Rockwells
[Re: matthew]
#685181
01/13/06 08:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 9,030
4x4Wire.com Managing Editor Emeritus
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yeah rockwells are very cheap around here .... few hundred bucks......... DEF. cheaper than a D60 Matt, if you can find me a set of rockwells for a few hundred bucks each, I'll buy 'em just to add to my axles-from-which-to-choose rack. Huh. I'm even half-serious about that! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> I've been wondering for years why folks didn't take the good parts from the deuce, trash the heavy not-so-good parts, and build a hybrid axle from the remaining bits? Keep the axles and everything from the inner kuckles out... and sell/scrap the housing and top-loader. Toss in the center-section of your choice, and connect the knuckles with tube... for my taste, I'd want to rework the outers for disk brakes and a reasonable bolt pattern, but many folks are happy enough forcing pinion or driveshaft brakes to function as service brakes. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> File this one under: idle thoughts not likely to ever happen. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> Randii
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Re: Portal Axles/Rockwells
[Re: randii]
#685182
01/13/06 09:37 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,156
Body Damage is Cool
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Toss in the center-section of your choice To what? Ford 9 is about the strongest center I can think of that has gear and locker availability and you would have to cut the shafts down to fit into the diff. And that would kind of defeat the purpose. If where talking beef for the CV/U joints (where the Rockwell has the biggest advantage) there are several options for the 60/70, ford 9. Sunray has those 1550 outers. And there are the Longfield CVÆs. IÆm not sure how many people could break either of those.
Steve C
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Re: Portal Axles/Rockwells
[Re: bob large]
#685183
01/13/06 10:19 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 172
Wheeler
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I feel the need to clear some things up, regarding the Unimog axles.
First point is that the Unimog can be the size of a CJ5 or bigger then a HEMIT (SP?) They share the portal axle, coil springs, and the torque tube as defining features (except the new Freightliner).
416 and 406 (for all practical purposes) are the same. The 406 has a shorter wheelbase, while the 416 (in my Avatar)is a bit longer. MB is still making NEW parts, and provide 100% support for these vehicles IF (and only IF) you know who to call.
The 416/406 has an air accuated locker, and can have 4-drum, or 4-disc brakes. Both drum and disc brakes work equaly well, with drum brakes reccomended in muddy/wet applications. ALso, the 416/406 has a few R&P options that will give you standard, Fast, and Super Fast ratios.
The 404, on the other hand, is much older. I'm not as informed on these guys... There's still a lot of NOS parts, if you know where to look. Drum brakes can be modified to run the 17" rim. Lockers are mechanical, as I understand it, and have no R&P options.
I'm trying to find more information on Toy calipers on the 416/406. I've never hear of it, but I don't hang around the champion crawler crowd much.
I'd be happy to answer any 406/416 questions, as I have a 416 in the driveway.
"Stubig" - '72 416.141 (U1100) Unimog
"Sassy" - '05 KLR650
"Brody" - '04 Rodeo (It's my wife's, really)
"Candy" - '02 TDI New Beetle (yes, a family of 4 fits inside)
"Twinkie" - '72 Revcon 250 (converting from Olds 455 to 6.5L Diesel)
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Re: Portal Axles/Rockwells
[Re: bob large]
#685184
01/13/06 11:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 9,030
4x4Wire.com Managing Editor Emeritus
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Steve, the 9-inch would be my center-section of your choice, certainly, but I wanted to leave it wide open for others. With the advent of the True Hi-9, this chunk is even better-suited for front axle duty: http://www.truehi9.com/ You can go 40-spline on a 9 before you start to get into the trophy truck side of the world, with Chrissman chunks. Heck, I haven't even STARTED to get creative -- if you're willing to spool (ugly IMHO for a front application, differential limitations go away) <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> Fred, what's the model for the 'baby mog' that uses one size smaller than 404s? Randii
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Re: Portal Axles/Rockwells
[Re: randii]
#685185
01/13/06 11:21 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,156
Body Damage is Cool
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cool thanks for the link. that the first i heard of that.
as for the toy calipers, there is a thread on pirate that talked about it. i'll see what i can find.
Steve C
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Re: Portal Axles/Rockwells
[Re: bob large]
#685186
01/13/06 11:36 PM
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,156
Body Damage is Cool
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Last edited by bob large; 01/14/06 12:09 AM.
Steve C
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Re: Portal Axles/Rockwells
[Re: bob large]
#685187
01/14/06 05:25 AM
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,984
Roll Me Over
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Toss in the center-section of your choice To what? Ford 9 is about the strongest center I can think of that has gear and locker availability and you would have to cut the shafts down to fit into the diff. And that would kind of defeat the purpose. If where talking beef for the CV/U joints (where the Rockwell has the biggest advantage) there are several options for the 60/70, ford 9. Sunray has those 1550 outers. And there are the Longfield CVÆs. IÆm not sure how many people could break either of those. Dont forget that there are no less than 4 aftermarket companies making D60 centers. Though I'm not convinced that doing this hybrid would make the strongest axle out there, but possibly the strongest cheap axle. I know the Sunray 1550 setup has been breaking fairly regularly in competition possibly because of the extreme turn angles they are trying for, and I've never seen the 60 CV actually on a vehicle. If you want a bulletproof 60 the CTMs have been proving pretty tough for the majority of teams. Problem is if you want CTM one piece axles and joints its gonna cost $$$. I know for a set of 8 axles (4inner 4outer) The materials alone were over $3k  I think if you could find a way to put the rockwell knuckles on a 60 and use those shafts it'd be a lot cheaper and at least close in strength. Then if you wanted to get silly and upgrade to a 40 spline diff and get some of those HUGE aftermarket rockwell shafts you could really put a beating on em. Dallas
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Re: Portal Axles/Rockwells
[Re: StinkBug]
#685188
01/14/06 06:30 AM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 172
Wheeler
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Disc brake conversions for the 406/416 axle is a big deal. IMHO, one of the issues with using the Mog axles is the ability to get brake parts at your corner NAPA store. Heck, I may have to call the guy, 'cause I have a drum brake 416 that needs brakes. If he can make brakes that will stop a fully loaded F350, using F350 parts... Man, what a deal.
It pays to have an open mind, to be sure.
"Stubig" - '72 416.141 (U1100) Unimog
"Sassy" - '05 KLR650
"Brody" - '04 Rodeo (It's my wife's, really)
"Candy" - '02 TDI New Beetle (yes, a family of 4 fits inside)
"Twinkie" - '72 Revcon 250 (converting from Olds 455 to 6.5L Diesel)
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Re: Portal Axles/Rockwells
[Re: FEF]
#685189
01/14/06 08:12 AM
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Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 9,030
4x4Wire.com Managing Editor Emeritus
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My problem is that my mind is closed the wrong way... I tend to scoff at the mainstream stuff and dismiss it as "too easily done" or "too common." Dana 60 centers sorta fall under that category, to me, Dallas. I know they are stout, but they're lacking in 'neato' ... even though I own a couple of them. Dallas, the 60 CVs were on a couple of rigs at SEMA last November, right? I'm just playing what-if for fun, but Dallas, we're speculating right down the same road. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You probably oughta get you head checked -- thinking like me is NOT a good harbinger. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/zombie.gif" alt="" /> Randii
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