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Extreme Help Needed 4D56T Transplant To Auto-Trans Raider #692777 02/03/06 05:30 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 4
B
beavsridininaraider Offline OP
Need a Spot
The Engine In My 88 Dodge Raider Just Died For The Third Time... Time To Go Diesel! What, If Any, Changes To The Engine, Auto-Trans, Or Body/ Frame Would Need To Be Done In Order To Fit A 4D56T Where There Used To Be A JUNK 2.6L Gasoline Engine.

Re: Extreme Help Needed 4D56T Transplant To Auto-Trans Raider [Re: beavsridininaraider] #692778 02/03/06 06:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,649
fasteddy Offline
Web Wheeler
*****
I don't know if the engine will mate up the a/t trans bellhousing. Last US diesel was the 86 pickup truck, which used the KM145 5 spd, a similar 4spd m/t, or a torqueflite based 3spd a/t, not the Aisin Warner KM148 4spd a/t. The 2.6 4spd a/t like yours has a really loose torque converter (tc hereinafter), with a stall speed of about 2400, suited to the rpm vs. torque characteristics of a gas and spark motor like the 2.6 and 3.0 in a fairly heavy suv. Diesels like lower rpms than foogas motors, and make more torque at those lower rpms, and the converter stall speed may be too high. The we get to gearing. The truck is geared based on foogas motor rpm ranges. A lower revving diesel needs a lower numerically diff gear ratio. In your case, with a small diff, I think you have the stock 4.625, the 3.91 from the pickup, or a 3.55.

Given all that, plus all the wiring changes and fuel system changes, if you want a diesel, go buy a 'Zu Spacecab diesel pickup, and you'll come out cheaper.

In your shoes, the most bang for the buck is the turbo on a sound engine rebuild, or just the Starion FI without the turbo. I think the turbo with engine rebuild would cost about one third the bucks for a diesel swap. That's roughly $2000 vs. $6000...


Not responsible for advice not taken...
Re: Extreme Help Needed 4D56T Transplant To Auto-Trans Raider [Re: fasteddy] #692779 02/03/06 10:38 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 82
DarthRaider Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
fasteddy is right on the mark. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> A diesel swap is straight forward, but it all comes at a cost. Will it be time or will it be money. They are both hard to come by. Any conversion be it a 4.3 FI or a 5.7 V8, you will need time and money lots of it. A diesel conversion is no different. I believe the most difficult task is finding the donor at the right cost. The questions you have are mostly answered in "Diesel conversion? " type that into the search option and don't forget to use the quotations. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />


87 Dodge Raider w/mits 2.3 Turbo Diesel 5 speed
Re: Extreme Help Needed 4D56T Transplant To Auto-Trans Raider [Re: DarthRaider] #692780 02/03/06 10:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,413
dadrab Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Eddy pegged it on the turbo swap. Relatively straightforward and excellent return.

Darth knocked a homerun with the availability issue. There ain't many of them out there.

If you've cooked three engines in your Monty, you've got some issues that need to be addressed.

My guess is that your cooling system is flowing at about 20% of capacity. Myriad of reasons can cause it, but a clogged radiator is the big culprit.

(I sound like a broken record. Anyone remember those? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

Whatever you decide to do, take care of that cooling system FIRST.

Welcome to the board, man. Hopefully you'll stay for a while. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />


87 Montero, bought new, by me -
88/89 intercooled Starion Turbo engine-
with awesome audio.


Re: Extreme Help Needed 4D56T Transplant To Auto-Trans Raider [Re: dadrab] #692781 02/06/06 08:00 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 292
Boertjie Offline
Mudrunner
What dadrab said.

Diesels are notoriously more prone to failures due to cooling, compared to petrol engines.

Use 4d56 at your peril. I don't rate it very highly. With your petrol prices, I would stick to a properly rebuilt 2.6.


1989 Exceed LWB
4m41 (3.2DiD TurboDiesel
5-spd Manual Tranny
2" lift
31" BFG A/T

Re: Extreme Help Needed 4D56T Transplant To Auto-Trans Raider [Re: Boertjie] #692782 02/07/06 05:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 217
T
turboDIESELtrooper Offline
Wheeler
Don't you think most of that would not be true if the diesel engine had a cast iron cylinder head? It's likely that overheating the diesel engine would not be too much of an issue given it does have a cast iron block and head. The most damage you could really do to a diesel engine if you overheat it is blow the head gasket. But since the 4D56 and 4D55 are cast aluminum head diesels this is not really true of them being under that category. I'd still think that doing a 4D55 diesel swap would cost you less than doing a whole rebuild of the 2.6 gas engine. If you don't have your mind set on getting a 4D56 to power your vehicle you should go with the 4D55. Seeing as the 4D56 is going to have to be bought from a foreign country, that is why the cost will be so much. You'll be spending a lot of money right up front before you even start the conversion. Since the 4D55 was available in the U.S. from 83-87 it will be easier to do a project with one of them as a powerplant. Basically, all you have to do is buy the diesel engine. If the accessories (transmission, radiator, etc.) between it and the 2.6 gas are the same then you already have most of the parts to accomodate the diesel. I'd stick with a diesel project that's for sure.

Re: Extreme Help Needed 4D56T Transplant To Auto-Trans Raider [Re: beavsridininaraider] #692783 02/07/06 11:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 200
Glock24 Offline
Wheeler
I know the 4D56 can be swapped with a V6 3.0 Gen I Montero, Auto or Manual, without effort. It is done frequently here in my country.

Don't know about the 2.6 tough.


'98 Galloper II Exceed 2.5TDI LWB 5sp Manual 5.29 Diffs
Re: Extreme Help Needed 4D56T Transplant To Auto-Trans Raider [Re: turboDIESELtrooper] #692784 02/08/06 10:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 82
DarthRaider Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Well the truth is almost every automotive diesel has an aluminum cylinder head. Thats not completely true there is the Peugot, and a few others. I have seen more cracked GM diesel cast iron heads and IH (Ford Diesel) than all VW heads together. Don't get me wrong I think cast iron will take more abuse than (overheating)than aluminum before <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/barf.gif" alt="" />ing. Yet GM and Ford's new automotive diesels Duramax and 6 liter both have aluminum cylinder heads, because nothing disapates heat quicker, but more importantly weights less. My experience with diesels that overheat is the same as with gas engines that overheat, <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" /> NEGLECT. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" /> Diesel engines are usually very economical and most owners often forget to even add fuel let alone flush their cooling systems. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif" alt="" /> Plain and simple diesel engines go longer with less maintance but when it needs repair you better hope you kept all those dollars you were saving at the pump. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />

Would I put another 2.3TD or 2.5TD in a Raider/Montero YES.
Are there an abundance of 2.3 TD out there NO.

Well at least not in my neck of the woods, the ones that are still around the guy is about 60-70 years old and when you ask him if he wants to sell it he just smiles <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/notooth.gif" alt="" /> and says "Why would I do a stupid thing like that".
Don't give up they are out there if you are willing to travel or I guess PAY... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />


87 Dodge Raider w/mits 2.3 Turbo Diesel 5 speed
Re: Extreme Help Needed 4D56T Transplant To Auto-Trans Raider [Re: DarthRaider] #692785 02/08/06 05:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,494
B
BobShaw Offline
Body Damage is Cool
TutrboDIESELtrooper is correct.
Go with the 4D55 as it is a direct replacement for the 2.6. I still think that rebuilding the 2.6 is similar to putting a candy apple paint job on a garbage truck. With a timing modification, my 2.3 out performed the Ford 4.0 and lasted 192,000+ miles.


87 Raizer, 4.3V6, Mod TH700R4,231CHD, detroit rear and LSD front, bouncy seats, 2" lift and 32x15 BFG MT tires.
Re: Extreme Help Needed 4D56T Transplant To Auto-Trans Raider [Re: BobShaw] #692786 02/08/06 07:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 913
L
Lee N Offline
Rock Warrior
Quote
TutrboDIESELtrooper is correct.
With a timing modification, my 2.3 out performed the Ford 4.0 and lasted 192,000+ miles.


And what might that timing modification be? Inquiring minds want to know!


Lee
'94 LS, 3.0 V6, Auto, completely stock
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