thought you had to have a different kinda motor and fuel setup to run E85 dident know you could just fill up and try it out... thought it would mess up your ride

so where are the how to articals on conversion of a gas motor such as an 85 toyota, with the fuel injection?
there are not that many rubber lines to replace.
but what about the fuel pump, the injectors?
what about all the crap it is going to loosen up in my tank.

start with a new tank (maybe a keg, they are cheap), flex fuel pump, injectors, replace fuel lines. could it be that easy?

Do you read - or do you just watch FOX infotainment? [/quote]

I read...I just thought I inadvertently got on the John Kerry web site.

I just googled E85 info or something along those lines.

Here is some long facts about ethanol, coming from my roomate for a research.

Good Reading.
<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/baby.gif" alt="" />

Corn Production
11% of the U.S. corn crop went into ethanol production in 2004.2
80 million acres of corn in 2005
http://www.energyjustice.net/ethanol/factsheet.html
http://www.ers.usda.gov/Briefing/corn/2005baseline.htm
http://www.nrbp.org/pdfs/ethanol_balance.pdf (138.5Bu/acre Pimentel)

Fossil Fuels required to produce corn
Diesel: 4 793Btu/Bu * 1.0548 MJoules/Btu *138.5 bushels/acre* 80 million acres*11%*/( MJ of fossil diesel produced 0.087Kg of CO2) = 5.361*1011 kg of CO2
For each MJ of fossil diesel produced 0.087Kg of CO2 is released
Gasoline: 3 439Btu/Bu*1.0548 MJoules/Btu*138.5 bushels/acre* 80 million acres*11%/25.77 MJ/kg *(3.19) = 5.473*1011 kg of CO2
HSC Values
LPG:1 515Btu/Bu *1.72*10-5kg Co2/Btu *138.5 bushels/acre* 80 million acres*11% =
3.176E7 kg of CO2 LPG used as fuel is 17.20 million metric tons carbon per quadrillion Btu(1015)=1.72*10-5kg Co2/Btu
Electricity:1 207Btu/Bu *(25kgCo2/1 000 000BTU of coal) *138.5 bushels/acre* 80 million acres*11% = 3.677E7 kg of CO2 Coal releases 25 Kilograms of carbon for each million BTU's of energy produced
Natural Gas:479Btu/Bu*1054.8 Joules/Btu*138.5 bushels/acre* 80 million acres*11%/(1 gigajoule of natural gas produces 50 kg of CO2) = 3.079E7 kg of CO2

Total: 5.361*1011 kg of CO2 +5.473*1011 kg of CO2+3.176E7 kg of CO2+ 3.677E7 kg of CO2+3.079E7 kg of CO2=1.083E12 kg of CO2


Manufacturing of Fertilizers:
Nitrogen: 26 995 Btu/bu
Potash: 757
Phosphate: 2936
Lime: 2331
Total: 33 019Btu/bu *1054.8 Joules/Btu*138.5 bushels/acre* 80 million acres*11%/(1 gigajoule of natural gas produces 50 kg of CO2)= 2.122 E9 kg of Co2

Transportation of Raw Materials (fuels/fertilizers/agricult. chemicals) to the Farm
Ave. Distance = 500miles river, 150miles truck &#61664; 274 and 2000 Btu/ton*mile respectively
Boat: 274 Btu/ton*mile * 500 miles river*48times/yr * 80 million acres*11%*138.5Bushels/acre*56lbs/Bu*8.929E-6tons/lbs / (1000J of fossil diesel/0.087Kg CO2) = 3.487E8 kg of CO2
Truck: 2000 Btu/ton*mile * 150 miles truck *96times/yr * 80 million acres*11%*138.5Bushels/acre*56lbs/Bu*8.929E-6tons/lbs / (1000J of fossil diesel produced 0.087Kg of CO2) = 1.527E9kg of CO2
Total: 1.877E9 kg of CO2

1 bu. Corn = 56 lbs = 0.0005 tons http://www.smallgrains.org/WHFACTS/convert.htm

Farming
Custom Work: 1480 Btu/Bu
Chemical:5635 Btu/Bu
Custom Drying:902 Btu/Bu
Input Hauling:1062 Btu/Bu
Total: 9 079Btu/Bu *1.0548 MJ/Btu*138.5 bushels/acre* 80 million acres*11% */( MJ of fossil diesel produced 0.087Kg of CO2) =1.015*1012kg of CO2


Total kg of Co2 in Corn Production
1.083E12 kg of CO2 +1.877E9 kg of CO2 +2.122 E9 kg of Co2 + 1.015*1012kg of CO2 = 2.102*1012kg of Co2

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Corn Transport to Ethanol Plant
Reference 1:1 244 Btu/gal *2.252gals/bushel *1.0548 MJoules/Btu / (1MJ fossil diesel/0.087KgCO2) *138.5 bushels/acre* 80 million acres*11%= 3.133*1011kg Co2


Production of Ethanol
1) Reference 1: 51 343 Btu/gal* 6542.4 million gallons per year *(25kgCo2/1 000 000BTU of coal) = 8.397 E9kg of Co2
http://www.nrbp.org/pdfs/ethanol_balance.pdf


2)Reference 2: http://grove.ufl.edu/~bests/pdfs/051004%20Marcelo%20Dias%20de%20Oliveira.pdf
12.4 GJ/m^3 *6542.4million gallons* 50 kg of CO2/1 gigajoule of natural gas * = 0.0037854118 cubic meter/gallon = 1.535E10 kg of CO2


Distribution of Ethanol to Gas Stations
3 173 Btu/gal*2.252gals/bushel *1.0548 MJoules/Btu / (1MJ fossil diesel/0.087KgCO2) *138.5 bushels/acre* 80 million acres*11%=7.992 E11kg of Co2



TOTAL kg of CO2 for production from Corn to Ethanol= 3.223 E12 kg CO2

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total CO2 absorbed by corn /yr:
1) REference 1: As a user of atmospheric carbon dioxide, fossil fuels, and nitrogen fertilizers, corn does affect global net emissions of greenhouse gases. These gases are considered by many to represent a potential threat to global climate. However, during a full growing season, an average hectare of corn removes 22 tonnes of carbon dioxide from the air. Growing one million hectares of corn removes an annual quantity of carbon dioxide equivalent to that produced in burning about 9 billion litres of gasoline. Carbon dioxide is released to the atmosphere in manufacturing inputs (fertilizer, fuel, pest control products, equipment) used in growing corn. It can be estimated that about 1.3 tonnes of carbon dioxide are released during the production of a hectare of corn. This includes input manufacturing and all transportation costs. The ratio of carbon dioxide absorbed to carbon dioxide released is therefore about 17:1.http://www.medicalecology.org/food/grain/f_corn.htm
(22 000 kg CO2 absorbed from the air/1hectare of corn)* 80 million acres *11%*1hectare/2.47105381 acre= 2.835 E10 kg CO2
Ratio of carbon dioxide absorbed to carbon dioxide released is: 1/114.

2) Reference 2: http://www.growingyourfuture.com/programs/colorado_reader/agriculture_pdf/corn/corn.pdf
14 000 kg CO2 absorbed from the air/acre(148 bushels)*80million acres*11%=1.232 E11 kg CO2
Ratio of carbon dioxide absorbed to carbon dioxide released is: 1/26.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CRUDE OIL Production
1) Reference 1: http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/quickfacts/quickoil.html
http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/infosheets/crudeproduction.htm
5 419 000 barrels/day

2) Reference 2: http://zfacts.com/p/196.html
2005 Oil Imports = 14 million barrels/day

3) Reference 3: About 47 barrels of gasoline are produced from every 100 barrels of crude oil processed at U. S. refineries, with other refi ned products making up the remainder
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/...imer_on_gasoline_prices/html/petbro.html
57 500million gal/yr *(100/47) = 1.223 E11 gal/yr of crude oil


Crude Oil Transport
1.223 E11 gal/yr of crude oil


GASOLINE Production

3210 BTU/L * 3.785L/gal * 57 500million gal/yr = 7E+14 BTU
The United States has nearly 150 refineries owned by 54 companies operating in 33 states. These facilities have produced nearly 350 million gallons of gasoline a day so far this year in order to meet consumer demand. In general, gasoline makes up about 45 percent of the total output.http://www.conocophillips.com/newsroom/other_resources/energyanswers/gasoline.htm#Refinery_produce_more_gas : 57 500million gal/yr
Coal releases 25 Kilograms of carbon for each million BTU's of energy produced
7E+14 BTU *2.5KG Carbon/1Million BTUÆs = 1.75E9kg of CO2 for Gasoline Production


Gasoline Distribution to Gas Stations
57 500million gal/yr

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Environmental Impact of Ethanol
http://www.ethanolrfa.org/resource/facts/environment/

-Ethanol is a renewable fuel produced from plants, unlike petroleum-based fossil fuels that have a limited supply and are the major contributor of greenhouse gas.
-The ethanol production process represents a carbon cycle, where plants absorb the carbon dioxide during growth - "recycling" the carbon released during fuel combustion.
-The use of ethanol significantly reduces harmful tailpipe emissions from both automobiles and off-road vehicles (ATVs, snowmobiles, watercraft and lawn mowers) that contribute to air pollution.
-Ethanol contains 35% oxygen, which aids in the combustion of petroleum fuels.
-It has become the oxygenate of choice in federal clean fuel programs including reformulated gasoline (RFG) and winter oxygenated fuels required by the Clean Air Act.
-The American Lung Association of Metropolitan Chicago credits ethanol-blended gasoline with reducing smog-forming emissions by 25% since 1990.
-Ethanol is biodegradable in water and soil.(By the Governors' Ethanol Coalition, "The Fate and Transport of Ethanol-Blended Gasoline in the Environmentö)
Ethanol is a natural substance generated during the fermentation of organic matter and readily biodegrades in water and soil. For instance, when gasoline contaminates soil or water, ethanol is the first component to break down. The benzene constituent is the real threat to the environment as it persist the longest in nature. Hence, since ethanol-blended fuel contains less benzene which is the main pollutant, it reduces pollution.(study commissioned by the MTBE industry)
-Ethanol reduces smog pollution. (National Research Council)
Carbon monoxide emissions are responsible for up to 20% of smog formation. Ethanol-blended fuel decreases tailpipe emissions of volatile organic compounds, which readily form ozone in the atmosphere. These reductions more than offset any slight increases of evaporative emissions due to the higher volatility of ethanol-blended fuel. Thus, the use of ethanol plays an important role in smog reduction.
-Ethanol reduces formaldehyde emissions. (The California Environmental Policy Committee, in a December 1999 review)
Eventhough ethanol slightly increases levels of acetaldehyde and peroxyacetyl nitrate (PAN), they are more than offset by reductions in formaldehyde," a toxic air contaminant many times more harmful than acetaldehyde. "Other components of gasoline, such as aromatic compounds and olefins, are primarily responsible for the formation of formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, and PAN due to both their greater abundance in gasoline and their shorter atmospheric lifetimes."

I read...I just thought I inadvertently got on the John Kerry web site. [/quote]

Ahhh... as I thought, you've already drank the kool-aid. Your part of that 30% that if you saw Bush kill a baby you would still vote for him.

Ahhh... as I thought, you've already drank the kool-aid. Your part of that 30% that if you saw Bush kill a baby you would still vote for him. [/quote]

Not at all, I disagree with the President on many issues. I think he's far too liberal. If it upsets you that I don't subscribe to the moveon.org tripe you do, youÆll just have to live with it. I will, however, say that I thank God that it was President Bush not President Gore on September 11, 2001.
As soon as your boys come up with any ideas, instead of just troweling out their treasonous, defeatist tripeàmaybe IÆll give them some credit. IÆll bet you have more than one pair of Birkenstocks, donÆt you?
Mark

Don't look to me to defend the spineless Demos or any of the incompentents from either party foisted upon us. As for Bush - I've never seen worse and I was there to see Johnson's mess first hand. You have to be stupid to think this retarded ape is anything but a national nightmare.

Okay you two...this started out as a good thread with regard to alternative fuel.

I was just going to suggest that he contact me at my personal e mail address...it's in my profile.