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Re: I need some help here......desperately [Re: beginner] #749406 09/04/06 08:37 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,568
Snowtoy Offline
Roll Me Over
Converting a clean 2wd to a 4x4 is really waste of time, money, and a good vehicle. Also since you are a newbie, the end product of this conversion would be way beyond your current skill level. To your $550, you would need to add a rear axle, install a x-member(2wd frames are different so it isn't a bolt on procedure), front and rear lift springs, an SAS kit, X-over steering or Hi-steer, rims and tires, gear change, plus the cost of welding required for the SAS x-member and spring hangers, figure an easy $2500 more.

Since this is a clean vehicle and you want a 4x4 for a daily driver and weekend outings, yoiu would be better off selling the 2wd and buying a 4x4. Here in CA a '91 clean 2wd X-cab can bring anywhere from $2500-4000. Depending on your area you should be able to pick up a 2nd gen('84-'88) stock 4x4 or a 3rd gen ('89-'94) 4x4 in need of repairs for the same amount, putting you well ahead of converting a 2wd to 4wd.

I think your buddy would also be a whole lot happier to see you sell something he took good care of, over hacking it up and turning it into a 4x4.

Another option would be to keep it and drive it while you look for a 4x4 in need of repairs. I have picked up 2nd gens for as little as $350 in running condition, only needing a good cleaning and tune-up, check craigslist.com for your region, you can usually find good deals there.

There is another way to keep the 2wd and build it so that you can use it for weekend outings, turn it into a pre-runner. You could put a 2wd lift on it run some 31's, drop an ARB and gears and be off. The lift/tires would give you more ground clearance and the rear locker would give you the added traction you need off-road. Toyota actually offered a 1st gen Tacoma like this a few years back


More than tread lightly. Leave it like you were never there, nor anyone else.
'90 X-cab 4.88's 33 BFG AT's, rr ARB, Headers, Ignition upgrade, cold air induction.
'91 X-cab 5.29's 315's BFG MT's, rr ARB, custom bumper and flatbed
Re: I need some help here......desperately [Re: Snowtoy] #749407 09/04/06 02:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 669
eightyeight Offline
Rock Warrior
definitly not worth it for your situation i'd think. for a daily driver/ light wheelin rig, just pick up a 2nd or 3rd gen ifs truck.

better yet, if you can, keep the 2wd as a daily driver and find an older 4x4 to wheel.

4 wheeling a rig that is also your daily driver tends to not work out so well. at least from my personal experiance.


-matt

-'88 toy x-cab, SAS, chevys, gears, lockers, free tires, dented body mod.
-'87 4runner, bone stock DD

"It's OK to do stupid things, as long as you are not stupid about it."

Re: I need some help here......desperately [Re: eightyeight] #749408 09/04/06 04:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 228
nuclear3579 Offline
Wheeler
Quote
definitly not worth it for your situation i'd think. for a daily driver/ light wheelin rig, just pick up a 2nd or 3rd gen ifs truck.

Quote

I think your buddy would also be a whole lot happier to see you sell something he took good care of, over hacking it up and turning it into a 4x4.

Another option would be to keep it and drive it while you look for a 4x4 in need of repairs. I have picked up 2nd gens for as little as $350 in running condition, only needing a good cleaning and tune-up, check craigslist.com for your region, you can usually find good deals there.


Agreed X2.


Too close for missiles, I'm switching to guns...

'97 4Runner...SR5, 4cyl (3RZ), 5spd, 4wd, no rust, excellent shape.
Re: I need some help here......desperately [Re: nuclear3579] #749409 09/04/06 08:03 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,768
Brian894X4 Offline
Trail Leader
*****
In my opinion, I don't know his buddy would be happy to see his rig sold. Otherwise his buddy would have sold it himself and kept the money. His buddy was doing him a favor by giving him the truck to use and one possible reason that he did so was because he wanted the truck to go to a good home since he probably has some time and money keeping it up. Selling a rig that was giving to you could be considered an insult.

It may be questionable whether converting a 2WD to 4WD is worth it, but consider the cost of a good 4WD rig in good shape and it could possibly add up to the total cost of the conversion, $2500-3500. In other words, it could easy be a wash either way, considering the rig was free. A lot depends on just how good of shape the rig is. Consider in the end, the only part of the original rig you'll have left is the frame, body and engine. Everything else will be swapped out with different parts. Also, who will do the labor. If you have pay someone to do the labor, that will make the project a lot less cost effective, as opposed to if you can or know someone who can weld and do the work for free.

You should look up Elbow Grease on this forum as he's done the conversion and can actually comment on whether it's worth it or not. One major advantage of converting a 2WD truck to 4WD and SASing it is that the front frame rails are more suited for a solid front axle and you can run a safe minimal lift, which means that you can keep your tire size as small as 31" and the lift as low as a stock 4x4 truck if you want a more streetable rig.

Just my opinion. Good luck.


[color:"blue"]My Toyota/Expedition Website[/color]
Foreign & Military Toyotas - Expedition 4x4s
Our historical explorations & much more

Re: I need some help here......desperately [Re: beginner] #749410 09/04/06 09:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 970
R
RatLabGuy Offline
Rock Warrior
Since 90%+ of the trucks out on the road have IFS, and you don't have real hard-core intentions for it as a 4x4, I'd suggest just looking to swap with an IFS truck. As I mentioned before, I'd bet you coudl get a whole truck to sere as the donor for your $500. Yes, you'll need some help/extra $$ for welding, fab, etc - but I'm skeptical it would all be as much as the 2500 suggested above, IF you can get a single donor truck whic hyou can take evrything off of ANd use as a template. Where it gets expensive is paying $150 for tis, $300 for that, $50 here and there, etc etc... it stacks up fast.

Here is another idea...
Do you have the space/facilities to have 2 trucks? It sounds like this 4x2 would be a great daily driver. Why not simply rely on it for everyday gettin garound, and take the $$ you have in pockets and look for a trail "beater" rig? Vehicle #2 does not have to be pretty, comfy, or even an, er, reliabile b/c you will always have another way to get to work. AKA you can spend less $$ on it initially. Then, you can work on it slowly over weekends and such - use this as your chance to learn the mechanical stuff at your own pace and w/o havin gto worry about walking/hitching a ride to work when some repair dosn't go so smoothly... which WILL happen...
Also thsi will keep this cool wit hyour buddy, he wil lappreciate your interest in his hard work on this truck, and surely understand that is simply does not fit all your needs.


With 200+ Billion electrical parts, the world most complicated machine is inside your own skull.

Question Reality.
-----------------------------
'89 Rnr DLX "SR4.5", 32s w/ 5.29 locked f/r blah blah
Re: I need some help here......desperately [Re: beginner] #749411 09/04/06 09:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 215
subliminaltrips Offline
Wheeler
you might be better off buying a 4wd but if you do swap to 4wd go solid axel and you will also need the rear axel cuz the axel is 6 lug instead of the 5 on your 2wd. look at trail gear for the ifs eliminator kit. youll need a steering box from an ifs truck though. im going to swap my 94 2wd over to 4wd after im finished with my 84 4wd. do alot of reading, look at pirate 4x4, but be carefull posting there they hate newbies... you can read alot of good info though.

Re: I need some help here......desperately [Re: RatLabGuy] #749412 09/04/06 11:59 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,768
Brian894X4 Offline
Trail Leader
*****
Quote
but I'm skeptical it would all be as much as the 2500 suggested above


$2500 would actually be a low end estimate. Assuming $500 for tranny and x-fer and front axle, which isn't a bad deal if all those parts are in good shape, then you have approximately $1500 just for a solid axle conversion kit (I haven't priced them lately) which should include the brackets, hi-steer. I'm not sure if the 2WD steering box can be used, so he may need a 4WD box. Then he'll driveshafts. Stock ones could possibly be picked up for a few hundred at a wrecking yard. At least twice that for new ones. Then he'll need a rear axle and diff, which will be a least $200-500 at a wrecking yard. And rear springs, shackles, U-bolts, etc.

And none of that addresses gears, lockers, and cost of labor. If done right, the cost could be kept to nearly the same as buying an entire other stock 4WD truck in good shape. But it would be tough. However, in the end, he'd have basically a '91 extra-cab truck with an '85 suspension and nearly an '85 frame, which counts for a lot if one wants to keep the suspension height as close to stock as possible. It would be a better truck than the typical SAS and with more room, better engine, than an '85 or earlier truck.

As for swapping 4WD IFS over to a 2WD truck, if that's what was meant, it's not possible. Or at least not feasible.

Quote
look at trail gear for the ifs eliminator kit.


Don't forget Marlin Crawler. Someone who actually gives a rip about his customers and the Toyota 4WD community.


[color:"blue"]My Toyota/Expedition Website[/color]
Foreign & Military Toyotas - Expedition 4x4s
Our historical explorations & much more

Re: I need some help here......desperately [Re: Snowtoy] #749413 09/05/06 12:19 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8
B
beginner Offline OP
Need a Spot
There is another way to keep the 2wd and build it so that you can use it for weekend outings, turn it into a pre-runner. You could put a 2wd lift on it run some 31's, drop an ARB and gears and be off. The lift/tires would give you more ground clearance and the rear locker would give you the added traction you need off-road. Toyota actually offered a 1st gen Tacoma like this a few years back [/quote]

It seems as if a conversion of this sort is way out of my league. I think using this truck as my daily driver and then pickin up a cheap 4x4 is my best option right now, if the 4x4's really are that cheap. However, I still want to at least be able to have a little off-road fun while pursuing my 4x4. So I would appreciate if "SNOWTOY" or someone would eleborate on turning this truck to a Prerunner as stated above. (Parts needed, where to order, etc.)


P.S. Thanks for all the feedback

Re: I need some help here......desperately [Re: beginner] #749414 09/05/06 12:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 12,153
4Crawler Offline
Web Wheeler
*****
For a high budget pre-runner conversion, check out some of the desert race truck places, for example: http://www.chaosfab.com/

For a lower budget conversion, try some ball joint spacers up front, maybe an add-a-leaf and/or longer spring shackles or spring over conversion on the rear end and maybe a modest body lift if needed to clear whatever tires you want to run. A limited slip or locker in the rear axle would help as well.

Re: I need some help here......desperately [Re: beginner] #749415 09/05/06 01:00 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 6,768
Brian894X4 Offline
Trail Leader
*****
Quote

It seems as if a conversion of this sort is way out of my league. I think using this truck as my daily driver and then pickin up a cheap 4x4 is my best option right now, if the 4x4's really are that cheap. However, I still want to at least be able to have a little off-road fun while pursuing my 4x4. So I would appreciate if "SNOWTOY" or someone would eleborate on turning this truck to a Prerunner as stated above. (Parts needed, where to order, etc.)


P.S. Thanks for all the feedback


That sounds like a good logical plan. You might consider adding a relatively cheap Lockrite or similier type locker to add to the rear traction.


[color:"blue"]My Toyota/Expedition Website[/color]
Foreign & Military Toyotas - Expedition 4x4s
Our historical explorations & much more

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