Wow, very cool that MS has WOT closed loop support.

I'll send you my most current maps tonight, Darin. The maps on the site are a bit lean; the current maps are much, much better.

Out of curiosity, how much boost are you running on the maps you've posted? Seem like your ignition advance is pretty aggressive. Are you running pump gas or something stronger?

-Jeff

I'm not running a turbo on this setup at all. It's a 100% stock (down to original gaskets) 22RE. I really did this project to support those that want to run a tunable ECU on a baseline 22RE/22RTE... Mainly those who do sigificant modifications that the stock ECU doesn't like - strokers, aftermarket turbos, port work, and for the 22RTE anything that dials the boost up a bit. Or for those people that don't want to make any wiring changes. It's cost me a bunch of time and a few extra ECUs, but I though they're be enough interest in it to slightly offset my time.. I just had no idea HOW much time it would take!

My real goal it to build a "budget" 22RE (low compression) - that's reliable and can produce 200hp for under $2500 - total cost including turbo, fuel management, and complete rebuild. That cost point might make LC Engineering cry.. I just need to find someone local that's interested.

My turbo motor is complete and sitting in the garage.. I've just got to hook up the throttle body, adjust the valves, do a few small things. The wiring harness is going to deviate as I won't use the AFM and I'll be doing a wideband, etc. Also the budget is out the door as I'll be going over that 200hp mark.



I'll post up some fuel and timing maps soon, the ones above were actually taken from another application just for the purposes of showing what they look like. I suppose I should correct that before someone takes them as actual data for the 22re.

Between your timing map and mine (for naturally aspirated) - you're running significantly more timing early (while not into boost), which makes sense as you're low compression.

I'll post actual timing and fuel maps soon.

Ahhhh...much clearer now.

Again, Darin, hats off to you for doing this. It is definitely something that the folks who need will appreciate.

Out of curiosity, what sorts of restrictions are there on reselling the open source components in the project? Are you allowed to sell them as part of a complete package with the proprietary stuff you've developed, or do you have to sell your proprietary items out of your storefront and point buyers to another source for the MS stuff? Again, just curious, and if you're more comfortable answering this via PM (or not answering at all) I understand...

-Jeff

Jeff, here is the current fuel map (VEBins) and advance maps (advTable) for a stock 22RE motor.
Note my base timing is 5deg BTDC.
I think the fuel map is spot on.
The timing map I'm still tweeking with, I've got it down to within 1-2 degrees.. Most people wouldn't notice a difference from a stock ECU, but I've got a touch of knock when running AC, coming off low idle, and accelerating.
I haven't tweeked the high end (rpm) of the map much...




I don't consider anything I've developed "proprietary". I'm happy to provide the pin out between the toyota connector and megasquirt. I will resell the harnesses - at least I'm going to sell 1 or 2 and see how that works out. I have a good job and it's simply not time vs income effective to spend my time on this.. I can't give them away, but I really don't want to charge big money for my time. It's a hobby.. How many hours have you spent answering questions and assisting people with their toyota stuff?

To answer your question:
There are restrictions on the board itself (copyrighted) and ECU. You're not allowed to make your own board (for resale) based on the current design. You can do whatever you want with them for personal use. This limitation prevents multiple unofficial board versions, contributes to stable design, and contributes to well documented modifications.

Resale:
Because the boards can't be copied (legally) and are available from a single documented source, distributors have to buy batches of 10 of them to become a "distributor". The only way to get kits now is from a distributor.

Distributors are allowed to resell assembled boards. There are some limitations, such as using non-origial ECUs and distributors that use non-original parts may find themselves out of the distributor business.

I'll be honest, there is at least one distributor that knew these boards well enough to provide detailed instructions on how to do it. If you're making a living at this, it's not in your best interest to disclose how to modify boards for a given application when you can charge a premium for those modifications. This sort of activity goes directly against what the creators of megasquirt are trying to accomplish, but it does happen. I found this to be quite frustrating more than once.

If you're asking me if someone can resell megasquirt, the answer is yes. You're essentially selling a configuration and assembly service as long as you use the original boards and components. Resellers can't do things like copy their board design, replace the ECU and resell for an increased profit.. IE source the major components somewhere else or develop them from scratch. This is the main "limitation" on resale.

Couple questions for ya.

Where did you get your MS? I've considered building my own unit but maybe a complete one would be better?

What do you think is the best option for ignition? I've been considering using the jacobs unit but I know if I go MS then I can be rid ofthe dist all together and use a more modern type of ignition, what would you recomend?

Keep in mind I know nothing about auto electronics.

Assembling megasquirt doesn't require circuit level knowledge. You've got to be able to follow directions and must have significantly above average soldering skill. You'll learn something about electronics...

I've had two MS units for this project. The one that worked was from DIYAutotune.com

Really, any quality vendor should work if you provide specific instructions. Just make sure you get someone who will stand behind their work. It's a real pain to debug these things. I had to get an oscilloscope and it took a lot of time / frustration.

If you want to get rid of the stock dizzy, I recommend EDIS. It's a well proven system and very common. The components required to make it work are inexpensive. It's a crank trigger system, some fabrication required.

Removing the stock dizzy will result in a loss of tach function. I believe it will also result in a loss of AC function also (there is a circuit that detects minimum RPM for the compressor clutch). These functions can be turned back on, but require an additional "adapter" and some wiring.

For plug and play, I recommend VAST (stock ignition).
For a more serious application, I'd recommend EDIS and a coil bank.
MSD ignition is another common option, but it triggers off the stock dizzy.
Ignition is the most difficult part of these projects, IMHO.

How does MS and EDIS compare in performance to say the jacobs unit? How much fabrication is required to make edis work and what do you need to run the stock tac?

Lots of questions I know.

I've never purchased the Jacobs unit or used it.
I have used a few of the MSD units: 6A and 6AL.
There are a few ways of getting better ignition:

1) More accuracy. Better resolution on whatever triggers the ignition. Something directly tied to the crank is usually better than a gear drive distributor, as the distributor has some level of slack and free play.
2) Bigger spark. Bigger spark allows more gap, which may burn fuel better.
3) More sparks. Multiple sparks discharged in a single ignition event.

I believe the Jacobs unit uses #2 and #3 above.

A EDIS is more accurate. I'd guess it also has a better spark as the electronics are more modern (but I have no factual confirmation).

To use one EDIS, you need to be able to mount a crank trigger. Is is a "gear" looking thing that goes on the end of your harmonic balancer. It can be welded on - or bolted on if you get creative enough. It's got to be very well centered, however.



You need to be able to mount a sensor within a few mm of this wheel.

To run the stock tach, you need a "signal" adapter. I believe megasquirt has a 5v square wave "tach output" - this signal needs to be conditioned into something the OEM tach understands. Basically you buy the adapter and wire it between megasquirt and your stock tach input. Jeff uses something like this for his FAST system.


If you're looking for a multiple-spark & hot coil system, you can use the MSD units with the stock ignition system.. Again, controlled by megasquirt. I'll let you do your megasquirt homework on the Jacobs system.. I've seen references to it.

There is probably a little bit of power in a better/hotter spark. There is also a bit of power in a properly adjusted timing curve.

Yea I'm gonna have to do a lot more research. I contacted the guy who did the MS on a 3vzfe. I'll bet I can use his maps as my starting point if I do go MS.

Darin is right in saying that the ignition control is probably more complicated than the fuel control.

On my system, I used the stock 22RTE distributor. It interfaces with a MSD 6A, which in turn interfaces with the FAST unit. I use one of MSD's tach adapters (I believe the one based on voltage) to drive the stock tach. The wiring was simple and the ability to use the stock distributor was actually one of the things that attracted me to the FAST, as at the time MS did not have spark control and the SDS system and Electromotive TEC II required fabricating a Hall effect sensor, which looked like a serious PITA.

Crank trigger ignitions are wonderful and very accurate, but most aftermarket setups and custom setups aren't well suited to the mud + water mayhem you might see off-road, as they attach externally. Most also mount to the crank. For a while I toyed with the idea of making a system that was driven off the flywheel, because I could mount the components higher up, but ultimately, I decided that the MSD/FAST interaction had some great benefits, like being stable and widely adopted/supported. So one approach is to use something close to stockinitially and then upgrade later once you get the motor running. Too many changes at once and you have a vehicle that sits for years because it is too complicated to finish.

My .02 cents, more or less on topic,

-Jeff