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Can someone explain the EGR system to me?
#761946
10/31/06 04:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,309
OP
Trail Leader
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So POCUK says to blank off the EGR, and I've heard it here too. Can someone give me the long and short of what EGR does on a diesel (I *know* it "recirculates the exhaust gas" - I want more). What happens to it over the years? Why does it cause smoke? Should one just blank it off, or clean/refurbish it?
School me please. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/baby.gif" alt="" /> I am but a diesel noob... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/baby.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Can someone explain the EGR system to me?
[Re: PHIL_]
#761947
10/31/06 06:28 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 56
Getting the Wheeling Fever
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The EGR system is a Japan environment reqirments. It doesn't make any help for the track performance, moreover it is not very healthy edition to the engine. So in most countries people just block it when the problem (black smock) starts. Good idea is - to block it before problems start. Problem maker is an EGR valve, that finally blows out from heat and smock
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Re: Can someone explain the EGR system to me?
[Re: PHIL_]
#761948
10/31/06 07:06 AM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,412
Body Damage is Cool
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From Wikipedia: Exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) is a NOx (nitrogen oxide and nitrogen dioxide) reduction technique used in most gasoline and diesel engines.
EGR works by recirculating a portion of an engine's exhaust gas back to the engine cylinders. Intermixing the incoming air with recirculated exhaust gas dilutes the mix with inert gas, lowering the peak combustion temperatures and (in diesel engines) reducing the amount of excess oxygen. Because NOx formation progresses much faster at high temperatures, EGR serves to limit the generation of NOx. NOx is primarily formed when a mix of nitrogen and oxygen is subjected to high temperatures. And: EGR in Diesel Engines
In modern diesel engines, the EGR gas is cooled through a heat exchanger to allow the introduction of a greater mass of recirculated gas. Unlike SI engines, diesels are not limited by the need for a contiguous flamefront; furthermore, since diesels always operate with excess air, they benefit from EGR rates as high as 50% (at idle, where there is otherwise a very large amount of excess air).
Since diesel engines are unthrottled, EGR does not lower throttling losses in the way that it does for SI engines (see above). However, exhaust gas (largely carbon dioxide and water vapor) has a higher specific heat than air, and so it still serves to lower peak combustion temperatures; the diesel engine's efficiency is still improved by reduced heat rejection and dissociation.
1991 Mitsubishi Pajero XP TD LWB family hauler.
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Re: Can someone explain the EGR system to me?
[Re: PHIL_]
#761949
10/31/06 07:52 AM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 292
Mudrunner
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There are only two reasons for you to keep it: if your legislation requires it, or the emmissions require it.
Blank it off (to bluff casual inspection) or remove all the bits. The diesel definitely runs better without it.
1989 Exceed LWB 4m41 (3.2DiD TurboDiesel 5-spd Manual Tranny 2" lift 31" BFG A/T
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Re: Can someone explain the EGR system to me?
[Re: Boertjie]
#761950
11/01/06 05:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,309
OP
Trail Leader
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There are only two reasons for you to keep it: if your legislation requires it, or the emmissions require it.
Blank it off (to bluff casual inspection) or remove all the bits. The diesel definitely runs better without it. Personally, I think your second reason is the important one - not for emissions reg's, but rather the emissions themselves. Taking off a pollution control "for the sake of" is IMHO, environmentally irresponsible. IF EGR does in fact reduce the Nox in the emissions, isn't that a good thing? But to your last point, that does seem to be the case, and may in fact negate (my) reason two: EGR systems have been used to reduce emissions of nitrogen oxides (NOx) from gasoline engines for almost 20 years. Basically, they work by recirculating exhaust gases back into the intake stream, which cools the combustion process and, thereby, reduces NOx formation. Because of tightening NOx standards, EGR systems are being developed for use in diesel engines, as well.
However, the application of EGR to diesel engines presents several challenges, including: insufficient differential pressure across the EGR line, which leads to a low flow rate of recirculated gases; contamination of the engine with particulate matter present in the exhaust; and increased emissions of unburned fuel components and particulate matter. ...particularly on older turbo diesels... Hmmm, need to read more on this. Do I sound confused? Thanks for the input so far guys. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Can someone explain the EGR system to me?
[Re: PHIL_]
#761951
11/01/06 05:54 AM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,412
Body Damage is Cool
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I've been reading POCUK on this issue as well Phil. I'm with the group that says to clean and maintain. Remember, the EGR also serves to reduce your EGTs, which is a good thing.
1991 Mitsubishi Pajero XP TD LWB family hauler.
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Re: Can someone explain the EGR system to me?
[Re: redbull]
#761952
11/01/06 06:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,332
Trail Leader
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But only if it is cooled before re-introduction into the combustion chamber.
The thing with NOx is that you need HC and NOx and sunlight before it becomes a real problem. NOx by itself isn't a really big deal. Your engine isn't making enough to cause a problem up there in the great white north.
Down here in Kalipornia, NOx and HC combined with all that sunshine really does cause problems. It makes smog, and lots of it.
The problem here is that the cars are getting a bum rap on the deal. It's really industry making most of that crap and they get a pass on it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
1990 Montero RS (In pieces... for now)
KG6VNX
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Re: Can someone explain the EGR system to me?
[Re: PHIL_]
#761953
11/01/06 08:23 AM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 292
Mudrunner
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Phil,
I think you have it correct there.
If the EGR system is in good nick, it will not influence performance and will be "environmentally friendly".
If it is not in good nick, it will influence engine performance as well as emit more pollutants than an engine without an EGR, due to the incorrect mix.
1989 Exceed LWB 4m41 (3.2DiD TurboDiesel 5-spd Manual Tranny 2" lift 31" BFG A/T
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Re: Can someone explain the EGR system to me?
[Re: Boertjie]
#761954
11/03/06 03:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,309
OP
Trail Leader
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Thanks again for the feedback lads. I did some reading over the last few days, and have come to the conclusion that I'm going to keep it in good order, and leave it in place. I'm doing an oil change tomorrow night, so while I'm at it, I'll be hauling apart the egr "system" (such as it is) and giving it a good carb-cleaner-dunking...
The results of my reading have convinced me that blanking the egr can possibly lead to increased engine temps, since the egr "gas" (at risk of redundancy) lower combustion temps, if I am to understand correctly.
Phil
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Re: Can someone explain the EGR system to me?
[Re: PHIL_]
#761955
11/03/06 05:43 AM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 266
Mudrunner
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I would concur...(e.g. Fix, not blank)
I was expecting to get my 88 with a gunked up EGR and was more than willing to spend a day and the $30 for a pail of "Gunk" brand degreaser to clean it up.. Just to find out the 88 never had an EGR..
A blanking plate sound just a bit to "snake oil" for me.. There are probably 2nd and 3rd order effects that blanking plates introduce that the UK crowd do not pass on.. Or even realise.. Remember they live within 20Km of everyting.. We typicaly have to drive 20Km to the just the Beer store..
Heck those guys in the UK barely see less than 0C and rarely hit 30C in summer (Well ok they did get some heat this year :-) ) For us guys trying to hit 200,000 or 300,000K KM north of the 39th parallel it is best to not play with the motors base design.
97 Prado (LC 90 series) JDM import 2020 --- 2000 Galloper II SWB under offer from Korea 88 Mits Pajero LWB 185000Km 2.5TD JDM import (SOLD)
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