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Re: Raider V8 Project 345hp [Re: 777] #763111 11/15/06 01:23 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 139
3
3esso Offline
Wheeler
Very nice job you are doing


when you finish you project can you post some videos for us!!!!

I really want to see it running

keep on the good work <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />


96 NJ SWB 3.5 pajero(Bone stock)
84 NA Hi-roof Pajero(also Stock)
Re: Raider V8 Project 345hp [Re: 3esso] #763112 11/15/06 02:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,649
fasteddy Offline
Web Wheeler
*****
Quote
what engine


Mitsu late model 3.0 sohc 24v. Forked rockers. twin pattern injectors (like 3000TT). With a 16G mitsu turbo, 3000TT 8:1 pistons, 3000TT injectors, and a MS2, at 15psi, I think I can get about 325-350hp. We'd run pretty close. I think I might end up lighter. And except for the MS, all stock mitsu.

I thought about the same trick with the 3.5sohc, but I think 3.5 turbo pistons might be hard to find. I hear they built one for the Aussies, but I've had no luck with the parts sourcing.

I think the sohc heads are just narrower enough than the dohc that this will fit ok.

I may have to go with a GM hydroboost master cyl., though, in which case I'll be looking for a Saginaw pump. I think you have a classic case of hydraulic dead heading. You are trying to push more fluid through the system than the lines and pump will handle. I think you could install a hydraulic pressure relief valve in the pump output line and cure it. The max system pressure is supposed to be about 1160psi with the pump deadheading against a gauge, so I'd use a 1000-1500psi adj. relief valve


Not responsible for advice not taken...
Re: Raider V8 Project 345hp [Re: fasteddy] #763113 11/15/06 11:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 44
7
777 Offline OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Quote
Mitsu late model 3.0 sohc 24v. Forked rockers. twin pattern injectors (like 3000TT). With a 16G mitsu turbo, 3000TT 8:1 pistons, 3000TT injectors, and a MS2, at 15psi, I think I can get about 325-350hp. We'd run pretty close. I think I might end up lighter. And except for the MS, all stock mitsu.

Great! How far are you with it? I was also thinking about this swap instead of V8 at some stage, but I was a bit worried about fitting turbos. Are you using original or custom exhaust manifolds and did you change turbo locations?
Have you done any wiring and MS work yet?

Quote
The max system pressure is supposed to be about 1160psi

- Are you talking about Mitsu system pressure?
I did some research and found out that Chevy pump max pressure is around 1100 - 1500 psi.
Alex Kogan wrote earlier that "Mitsu pump only outputs about 2.2GPM which is a lot less then 3.5 for GM" - so if these numbers are correct than I think that it is more of a flow issue than max pressure issue... The fact that fluid was getting hot even at idle when the car was not driving could also be explained with flow not max pressure theory.


Raider 6.0 V8 386hp, 397ft lb, 3?exhaust, Megasquirt ECU, EDIS ignition, Innovate LC-1 WB Lambda, NV4500, NP241 with JB conversions ?super short? SYE kit
Re: Raider V8 Project 345hp [Re: 777] #763114 11/15/06 07:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 509
W
Winston Offline
Rock Warrior
You guys keep talking about "when" 777 gets it running... His tag line already states that it is "running and reliable."


'90 Montero XLS (Sold, sadly)
'95 Montero LS 160k
'03 Montero Limited 30k
Re: Raider V8 Project 345hp [Re: Winston] #763115 11/15/06 07:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 44
7
777 Offline OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
The car is running. It is my and my girlfriend's daily driver at the moment. Not because it's so nice to drive, but it's my only car at the moment. I've sold my other cars, moving back to Europe soon.

Last edited by 777; 11/15/06 08:06 PM.

Raider 6.0 V8 386hp, 397ft lb, 3?exhaust, Megasquirt ECU, EDIS ignition, Innovate LC-1 WB Lambda, NV4500, NP241 with JB conversions ?super short? SYE kit
Re: Raider V8 Project 345hp [Re: 777] #763116 11/15/06 07:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 8,557
LandRaider Offline
Forum Moderator
*****
You're taking the raider with you??!!


87 Raider 4D56td v5MT1
31's..Basically Stock
Re: Raider V8 Project 345hp [Re: LandRaider] #763117 11/15/06 09:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 44
7
777 Offline OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Quote
You're taking the raider with you??!!


- I will


Raider 6.0 V8 386hp, 397ft lb, 3?exhaust, Megasquirt ECU, EDIS ignition, Innovate LC-1 WB Lambda, NV4500, NP241 with JB conversions ?super short? SYE kit
Re: Raider V8 Project 345hp [Re: 777] #763118 11/15/06 09:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 8,557
LandRaider Offline
Forum Moderator
*****
Thats excelent. Where in europe?


87 Raider 4D56td v5MT1
31's..Basically Stock
Re: Raider V8 Project 345hp [Re: fasteddy] #763119 11/15/06 11:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 913
L
Lee N Offline
Rock Warrior
Quote

I think you have a classic case of hydraulic dead heading. You are trying to push more fluid through the system than the lines and pump will handle. I think you could install a hydraulic pressure relief valve in the pump output line and cure it. The max system pressure is supposed to be about 1160psi with the pump deadheading against a gauge, so I'd use a 1000-1500psi adj. relief valve


I would think it's a situation of mismatched flow. If the extra flow has to be dumped over a relief valve, this will generate heat. The change in energy state (pressurized) to a lower state (unpressurized) has to be converted into something and that's heat. I'd say the solution is to either use matched components or a big cooler.


Lee
'94 LS, 3.0 V6, Auto, completely stock
Re: Raider V8 Project 345hp [Re: 777] #763120 11/24/06 04:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 44
7
777 Offline OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
-------------------- 6 --------------------------
Engine Management

I bought engine complete with original ECU and part of wiring loom, thought the easiest solution would be to use that. The engine was with electronic throttle control and I didnÆt have throttle pedal with sensor and some kind of throttle control unit. From forums I found out that there were a lot of people who were not happy with its operation and reliability, so I went for mechanical throttle. Then there was a next problem û ECUs and loom were different for electronic and manual throttle, so there was no reason anymore to keep original ECU and loom. I chose Megasquirt II (MS). Not because itÆs the best, but because itÆs cheap and proven reliability. At this stage I had 2 friends helping me out, Sam who did most of the electrical work and Seb putting up fuel system and helping with everything else that needed to be done.
MS has two disadvantages in my opinion. First it can control only one ignition coil** and second it doesnÆt have WB lambda control in ECU. These are not really problems, but if to go for more than one coil and/or WB lambda, then separate electronic units would be needed. For ignition Ford EDIS wasted spark ignition system would be the easiest solution and for WB lambda Innovate LC-1 Lambda controller would be pretty straight forward.

We decided that we definitely needed EDIS, but would start with NB and think later about WB. We took the EDIS-8 (module, wiring, sensors and trigger wheel) from some Lincoln in junk yard for $15. We didnÆt use MS relay board, but used something from junk yard instead. ThatÆs not because of money, but because of random production car relay and fuse box had much better quality than MS one. Cooling fan was also controlled by ECU, so it needed to be taken into account when making a loom.
Sam built the loom at the beginning without heat shrink, just to be sure that everything was working and in case we wanted to change something.
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Another thing to decide was fuel tank, pump, lines and relief valve. The Raider had carb engine fuel tank. The easiest thing would have been to use short wheelbase fuel injected Raider/Montero tank, but I was concerned about fuel pump flow and fuel injected tank was wider on passenger side than carb engine tank, which would have left less room for 3ö exhaust tubeà In the past when high pressure/flow has been needed I have successfully used mechanical fuel injection (also called K-Jetronic, CIS) pump. Mechanical injection was used in Æ80-s and at the beginning of Æ90-s on several German cars, like Audi, VW, Porsche, Mercedes, BMW. It operates at 5-6 bars of fuel pressure and pump can give out about 10 bars. Some VW have pump in little extra ? gallon tank, where fuel is delivered with low pressure pump, so using this system with my original fuel tank was the best for me. There was no worry about 1.6l engine fuel pump delivering sufficient flow for my 6.0l engine because the same pump with different housing is used for Mercedes 4.5l V8 with 300hp and for VW 1.6.
On Escalade the fuel pressure relief valve is somewhere near tank (or maybe in the tank) and only one line is coming to front. It is my personal opinion, but I think that that this setup is a big potential for vapor lock problems and I preferred to have relief valve in front near the engine.
For fuel lines we used Silverado lines. We put the fuel lines into the tunnel to avoid heating from exhaust.
à
Everything together it was time to start the engine first time û it didnÆt start.
[Linked Image]

We had a problem with malfunctioning fuel pump and then ignition coils firing order, but after fixing these problems at 3 AM in the morning it fired up and ran smoothly. I have to say it was really a good feeling for us. This was the moment we would always rememberà Now it was a time for ECU tuning



** Actually with some software changes it can control several coils, but I couldnÆt find much information about how to do it and its reliability.


Raider 6.0 V8 386hp, 397ft lb, 3?exhaust, Megasquirt ECU, EDIS ignition, Innovate LC-1 WB Lambda, NV4500, NP241 with JB conversions ?super short? SYE kit
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