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Re: Need Engine Help [Re: 93yj] #781184 03/05/07 06:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 34
C
cstimmons Offline OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Upon closer examination of my valves the no. 6 was bad as well.


Her'e's a good one:

[Linked Image]

Here's the known bad no.1 cyl

[Linked Image]

Here's the no. 6 cyl (not as bad as no. 1 but oily none the less)
[Linked Image]

When I did the compression check the thing was in the drivway and thus putting the no.6 at the lowest point.(my driveway slants that way) It got a little more oil than the other cylinders. That's also why it got a bunch of coolant in it when I pulled the head.


93 Wrangler
4.0L (remanufactured from S&S about 5 years ago)
Mostly stock
Re: Need Engine Help [Re: BigJim] #781185 03/05/07 06:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 34
C
cstimmons Offline OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Quote
Well Santone the valve jobs are simply put...excessive WEAR on both the valves and the head! The grinding thins out both for no reason. If the valves are working I never have seen a need to grind them down and have them seated deeper in the head.
When I have a burnt valve I get a new one and LAP it into position with a diamond compound.. JUST the one. Then I put the head back in service.
I have my own of course but I think you can BORROW a valve spring compressor from the parts house. It ain't rocket science!
Big JIm <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />


So go get a spring compressor, pop off the bad valves and replace the seals? Anything I should look for in replacing the valves themselves?

EDIT:

Q2
If two of them are bad should I just replace the whole set?

Last edited by cstimmons; 03/05/07 06:27 PM.

93 Wrangler
4.0L (remanufactured from S&S about 5 years ago)
Mostly stock
Re: Need Engine Help [Re: cstimmons] #781186 03/05/07 10:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,768
BigJim Offline
Web Wheeler
Yes get a set of valve seals. The ones I use look like little cups. Take the spring off of a bad one and a good one and without pulling the valve itself look at the difference in the existing seals. The bad one should be cracked or gone completely and the good one should still be holding tightly to the valve..
Then pull the valve out about 1/2 inch from it's seat and ROCK the stem in the hole.. do this to both and see if there is a noticeable difference in CLEARENCE in the two...If not then the seal is the problem...if however you have worn out the guide..ie made the hole too large.. then we need to go to the shop and get all new guides!
OR we neeed to get nother head.. Hopefully the five year old seals were not the best when new and that is the problem.
Big JIm <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />


professional bovine relocation specialist
Re: Need Engine Help [Re: BigJim] #781187 03/05/07 11:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 34
C
cstimmons Offline OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Quote
Yes get a set of valve seals. The ones I use look like little cups. Take the spring off of a bad one and a good one and without pulling the valve itself look at the difference in the existing seals. The bad one should be cracked or gone completely and the good one should still be holding tightly to the valve..
Then pull the valve out about 1/2 inch from it's seat and ROCK the stem in the hole.. do this to both and see if there is a noticeable difference in CLEARENCE in the two...If not then the seal is the problem...if however you have worn out the guide..ie made the hole too large.. then we need to go to the shop and get all new guides!
OR we neeed to get nother head.. Hopefully the five year old seals were not the best when new and that is the problem.
Big JIm <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />


The new ones look completely rubber, while the old ones look like they had to be stamped on. There is a noticable difference in the "grab" of the new ones, but probably cause they are brand new. The existing seals just look cheap and worn. I ruined one of them not knowing that the metal portion of the old one had to be removed as well and wore out the new one by trying to put it over both the guide and the seal. (noobie move)
Old one
[Linked Image]
New one
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


The fellpro kit I got has about everything I need. It just sucks that I had the head off at about 10AM but didn't get the kit till about 330PM.

Either way I still have some surface cleaning to do.


JUST FYI for anyone that is using this thread as a reference in the future. I recomend the prybar type spring compressor. It is faster and cheaper than the one that looks like a gear puller.


lastly, these new ones do not have springs, just the metal clip at the top. Should I replace those with the springs or leave as is?

Last edited by cstimmons; 03/05/07 11:28 PM.

93 Wrangler
4.0L (remanufactured from S&S about 5 years ago)
Mostly stock
Re: Need Engine Help [Re: cstimmons] #781188 03/06/07 12:04 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,768
BigJim Offline
Web Wheeler
And I advise the "other" one that looks like a gear puller! It is adjustable to the depth you need and then it gets em all to that depth.
NO! Do not add springs. The felpro guys know what they are doing.
You have not said anything about any wobble in the stems in the guides...
Big JIm <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />


professional bovine relocation specialist
Re: Need Engine Help [Re: BigJim] #781189 03/06/07 12:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 34
C
cstimmons Offline OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
All of the stems seem to be pretty solid in there. These seals look old and brittle. It looks like I would be replacing a bunch others later on. I've been pulling the stems as I replace the seals and checking for cracks/straitness.


On a good note I got some good luck. UPS finally delivered my carpet and header after being lost in dallas.

The header I got was the ruged ridge from http://www.quadratec.com/products/17604_102_07.htm After being a week late they sent me the wrong one. The good thing is they sent me the more expensive one.

Once the motor is put back together I have a new cat and muffler I'm throwing on there.


93 Wrangler
4.0L (remanufactured from S&S about 5 years ago)
Mostly stock
Re: Need Engine Help [Re: cstimmons] #781190 03/06/07 01:33 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,768
BigJim Offline
Web Wheeler
That's a good looking header you got there! Should last a long time.
It is a common practise to pound the valve tops with a hammer (seating and depressing the spring 1/4 inch or so) after all are back together... Making sure the keepers are in position as they should be. We don't want one of them dropping onto a piston from a poorly installed keeper.
Big Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />


professional bovine relocation specialist
Re: Need Engine Help [Re: BigJim] #781191 03/06/07 02:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 34
C
cstimmons Offline OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
with some suprising help from my wife the head is back on. Well, it's in place....I can't find my locktight and I was losing daylight. That with the beer, I decided against a trip to the store.

It'll wait till tomorrow, I'm on leave till sunday so I got time.

[Linked Image]

Here's the rest of her...pretty stock but in great shape.
[Linked Image]


93 Wrangler
4.0L (remanufactured from S&S about 5 years ago)
Mostly stock
Re: Need Engine Help [Re: cstimmons] #781192 03/08/07 02:31 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 8
M
mike082679 Offline
Need a Spot
Hello all, don't mean to chime in, but my YJ (89, Ford TFI ignition, MC2100 carb, Nutterd'), is showing the same symptoms as cstimmons and I am very anxious to see the resolution to this problem. I had a rough idle, SEVERE blowby from the valve cover, poor fuel mileage, decreasing coolant levels, oil coated air filter, and a nice frothy milkshake for oil. I already went through the entire PCV system and replaced everything, cleaned oil baffles, etc. After doing a compression test, I found that all cylinders were around 135psi normal and 150psi with addition of some oil...with the exception of the #2 cylinder, 45psi normal and 60psi with oil. I took this as a sign that either I have valve problems or a blown HG. Does this sound like a logical conclusion? I have already pulled the head and the gasket looks good. As a forethought I ordered a reman head from Autozone, still not due to arrive until the 13th. I need my Jeep back!

Re: Need Engine Help [Re: mike082679] #781193 03/08/07 04:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,768
BigJim Offline
Web Wheeler
Is the oil level over full? (from coolant added)
Do all the valves look the same as each other...Or Is one of them in the #2 look like one side is burnt?
What does the 32 cylinder look like? Scratched up and down?
How about the top of the 32 piston?
Looking very closely do you see a small crack between any of the cylinders on the head surface?
Attempt to examine the lobes of the camshaft for the #2 valves..
Big Jim <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />


professional bovine relocation specialist
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