It's interesting when someone asks for experienced advice and then tosses it.

Complete kits, I have found, are not worth what they cost. So you get everything, and learn nothing. Gee, what a deal.

What you get in a complete kit is what someone threw together in a way that makes the greatest margin for them and undercuts the competition (if they are thinking purely business, and narrowly at that). I have not seen a kit yet, from ANYONE, that has the components that make the best sense and work the best.

Frankly, a SAS is not that complicated, if you follow the narrow path and learn from others' mistakes and successes, and MAKE SURE YOU DO BETTER WELDS THAN FACTORY. And guess what, you'll actually save money and have a better working system. DO NOT MAKE A DECISION BASED ON $300 for pities sake. My safety on the road will be impacted by your poor decisions. Not to mention the kind of 4x4 world you will be building based on saving $300, and where that will leave you in 5 years. You spend that much on pop in a year!

You wanna make your own crossover? It's been done, it's failed badly, and endangered people. You wanna do that again? That's a good idea - why? You will save HOW much?

I have found that Front Range Off Road Fab's spring hangers provide the closest-to-factory steering geometry (you know, that HS class you hated?) and the best handling, not to mention the strongest total assembly (less stress on the frame over time). The TG/AllPro hanger will crack your frame and then you get to re-engineer it. Brian Ellinger does very well engineered products, which constantly get ripped off by some other low-life copycats out there who don't actually engineer anything. Buy the real deal.

5" lift, even without a BL, is a bad idea unless you also are going with full width axle$. FWIW, chicks dig the hole in my hood (which is nicely trimmed with auto trim BTW). The truck is a sleeper until people start looking close, rather than being a bunch of eye candy that, when closely examined, turns out to be junk - like so many rigs out there.

Life is too short to build cheap junk. I am never afraid to have anyone crawl under my truck - in fact, I smile, because I know.

Sorry to get my shorts in a knot, but geez youngsters, think about the consequences of your actions on all levels! Including how you behave on the trails - while we still have them!

[edit] BTW, to the original poster - I think it's really cool your dad is doing this project with you. He wants you to be safe, so don't take the cheap route. I wish my dad had done stuff like this with me - and I am doing it with my sons now. Goodonya!

These are the vendors I would support unquestioningly:
Marlin
Front Range Off Road
Off Road Solutions
All-Pro (in most products with some exceptions)

All of them have one thing in common: they make quality products that they back with good to excellent customer service, which you WILL need sooner or later. Almost all of them have one thing in common: they have been screwed by Chris Geiger.

You have to decide which commonality you wish to share with them.

X2 <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

not that i'm supporting all pro over marlin crawler, i should just note that all pro's sas kit is on sale for $1,049. but after seeing crashyota's truck get ripped apart using the allpro kit, i'm not so sure if i would use it myself lol. but then again, any kit probably would of done the same.

That's not a fair assessment of AP's kit at all. No offense intended, but he destroyed that kit on his own due to poor judgment, nothing else. AP isn't my favorite, but they don't deserve any bad press for that incident whatsoever.

And frankly,their new steering arms are amongst the best, if not THE best, in the business according to people that I trust.

I purchased my spring hanger from All-Pro over eight years ago and when I first got it I did not like one thing about it. There was no braceing running back the frame rails. So in other words it was just going to hang on the front of the frame. Taking in the leverage that will be put on the frame I decided to add some braceing to it. I have seen to many frames break right at the front, both stock 79-85 and IFS frames What I used was a piece of 2 x 2 x 1/4 angle iron. If you look you will also see bolts in the brace. When I first hung the hanger it was bolted on in six places to make sure it was in the right place before I welded it. I have always thought the vendors should add this brace to the hanger.

The first picture is my rig, the second is of the brace made from 2 x 2 x .125 wall square tube I do not know whose it is I gleamed the picture off PBB.

By the way, my spring hanger is the seconded one A-P ever sold. There were no kits in those days, you pieced mealed or made your own parts. My high steer was the seconded Marlin ever sold. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

OOP's I apreciate this advise. I now know another thing to add to the list.

I like that brace idea for the hangers.... many frames break here. Perhaps a little more heat and slower wire speed on the weld job though.... bigger the blob doesnt mean better the job...

You can get an out the door SAS done here in Oregon by 4x4 shops for $2500.

Let the attorneys sort out the legal stuff..... Im goin 4x4ing.

For all the stuff the Trail-Gear kit has for 1100... all you need is an axle and driveshaft and welding and you're done. It is a fact that no place else beats Trail-Gear's price. Ya, their business practices may be unethical, and I really do hate to see Marlin get screwed like that.

But being the poor college student I am, Trail-Gear's prices overweight business ethics for now. If I were rich, I would buy all Marlin Crawler, except for I am certainly not rich so I can't afford to do so.

I have seen no quality differences in TG vrs others in person or hear-say online. I have also seen great customer service in person and heard of similar accounts on the forums with TG. Quality and service are not a concern to me with Trail-Gear, and as they absolutely have the best price I will be buying my kit from them when I go to SAS in May.

My thoughts.. *shrug*

-Scerb

Vote with your wallet then... but you are spending too much, besides to whom.

FWIW, a proper spring hanger simply does not extend down as far as the AP/TG unit. Mount it closer to the frame (no cross brace required, really, and Brian Ellinger will sell you the individual spring hangers separately for a lot less than that TG price) and you won't have to worry about frame stress. For shackle hangers, use DOM with an ID to fit the bushings. For shock mounts, use Ford $12 units.

It's all been covered. The money used in a kit saves you... a very small amount of legwork, and costs you a lot more money. So if you are on a serious budget, I'm not sure I follow the logic?