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Re: Where to start? [Re: thefarky] #803821 04/09/07 09:25 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,568
Snowtoy Offline
Roll Me Over
Since you are new to the hobby, you don't need a locker, all a locker will do for you now is get you into trouble on the trail. Yes a locker is a plus to have on any trail but not necessarily needed when starting out. My buddies and I all wheeled for years before getting lockers, we had to do a lot of digging and recovery work, but we also learned a lot more.

The first thing you need to spend your money on is recovery gear(quality tow/snatch strap, shovel, hi-lift jack, tire plug kit, duck tape, large zip ties, gloves, 2 ton come-a-long, a set of hand tools, etc.) a first aid kit, an on board air system(compressor plumbed to a tank, a CO2 tank, or a couple of 5 gal air tanks) to refill your tires after airing down for better traction/ride on the trail, a way to carry it all securely in your truck, a CB, and recovery points at the front and rear of the truck. You should have one factory tow hook on the passenger side, you should add another one to the drivers side. You will also need a way to be towed from the rear, if you have a drop hitch reciever they have recovery hooks designed for them, or you can make your own. If you only have a standard rear bumper, you should buy a drop hitch reciever, or a rear bumper with teh drop hitch reciever built in it. After this you need to invest in rock sliders to potect the rocker panels(the area below the doors), the sliders alos give you a place to lift the truck from if you need to reseat a bead, lchange a flat tire, help get you unhi-centered, and get a good solid front bumper. These will help to keep your truck's sheet metal looking clean, and allow you some room for error when out on the trail.

The next thing you need to do is find a buddy with a 4x(never go with one rig), or join a club, and hit the trail. Once you have an idea of what you want to do on the trail, then look into things like lockers and winches. There is a pretty long learning curve to this hobby, wheeling an open diff'd rig is IMO the best way to learn how to read a trail and pick the right line much better, you learn how to correctly spot another vehicle and how to be spotted, as well as what helps to get a vehicle unstuck and through a difficult section on the trail, all of which is needed even with lockers, dual t-cases, large tires, etc. You want your vehicles ability to always be behind your driving ability, you should only modify your rig as your driving skills advance.


More than tread lightly. Leave it like you were never there, nor anyone else.
'90 X-cab 4.88's 33 BFG AT's, rr ARB, Headers, Ignition upgrade, cold air induction.
'91 X-cab 5.29's 315's BFG MT's, rr ARB, custom bumper and flatbed
Re: Where to start? [Re: Snowtoy] #803822 04/09/07 07:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 202
rednekbean Offline
Wheeler
yes that is the first necesity is the proper tools and recovery gear. for example i was at the dunes 2 days ago and debeaded a tire, now the bead was full of sand and there was no way to get it to hold a bead, so that is why you always carry a full size spare too. even though the front right leaf pack snaped 500 ft from the overflow parking lot, right behind the axle perch all three clean snap.

i would not worry to much about the locker, yes they do alot and next to the best upgrade, which is dual t-case and gears. personally if you are doing just light stuff to basiclly dink and explore the woods then i would get a small lift of around 3", 32 or 33 mudterrains (if you do go to the bigger tire re-gear the differentials according. thats exactly what i started out with and i dont regret one bit.

BTW.... the first thing i did after that was swapped in a rear axle out of a 96( non factory e-locker) tacoma with a detroit locker.


92' Pick-up, SAS, gears to make her crawl, 37's , bullet proof motor, and alot of time invested.
06 CRF450R one mean roost flinging machine
Re: Where to start? [Re: Snowtoy] #803823 04/10/07 02:28 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 38
Squishy Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Quote
Since you are new to the hobby, you don't need a locker, all a locker will do for you now is get you into trouble on the trail.

yes, but the flip side is that a selectable locker can save you from a lot sticky situations. An automatic locker can be scary on ice, but is inexpensive. I started with a pretty much bone stock truck with a locrite and I could keep up with my buddies in their Jeeps with 35" tires and winches and I never got stuck. In fact I was the one doing the pulling. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/nana.gif" alt="" /> I'm 20 and have been driving since I was twelve and have had four years prior experience on a dirtbike, so it might be different, but I don't know your story.

Quote
The first thing you need to spend your money on is recovery gear(quality tow/snatch strap, shovel, hi-lift jack, tire plug kit, duck tape, large zip ties, gloves, 2 ton come-a-long, a set of hand tools, etc.) a first aid kit


However I completely agree with this. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> It is EXTREMELY important to be prepared for the worst in all situations. I am guilty of not doing so, but it hasn't gotten me in trouble yet. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> (knock on wood)

So. This is up to you. a Toy E-Locker is a lot of work, but well worth every minute. Learning to wheel bone stock (assuming you don't have any experience, which you might) is a good learning opportunity, but one I wouldn't suggest staying in for too long.


Justin Morgan-Speed never killed anyone, it's the sudden stop at the end that'll get ya

1988 Toyota 1/2 ton
Solid front axle, locked fore and aft, 35's and 5.29s.
Re: Where to start? [Re: Squishy] #803824 04/11/07 02:32 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,568
Snowtoy Offline
Roll Me Over
Quote
Quote
Since you are new to the hobby, you don't need a locker, all a locker will do for you now is get you into trouble on the trail.

yes, but the flip side is that a selectable locker can save you from a lot sticky situations. An automatic locker can be scary on ice, but is inexpensive. I started with a pretty much bone stock truck with a locrite and I could keep up with my buddies in their Jeeps with 35" tires and winches and I never got stuck. In fact I was the one doing the pulling. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/nana.gif" alt="" /> I'm 20 and have been driving since I was twelve and have had four years prior experience on a dirtbike, so it might be different, but I don't know your story.


Yes my experience is a little different than yours, I have been wheeling for 18yrs now, and had about 10yrs of backpacking/mountain biking experience prior to that. I found the hiking/biking experience transfered over well to wheeling, as I am sure dirt bikes did for you. Having the ability to pick a line through a rocky section with a 60lb pack was valuable skill when hiking off trail. However I have found a lot of newbies to the sport today don't have this type of previous experience to draw from, and they tend to to make up for it by buying lockers, lifts, tires, etc. This is all fine when they are on easy trails that are well below their rigs ability, however, once they get into a situation that equals/surpasses their rigs ability they are usually lost for what to do and are in trouble. This is a hobby that the wrong move can easily result in severe injury/death or the totaling of a rig, both of which I have seen on the trail. We have a couple of guys in our group like this, and they have both rolled their rigs in easy situations, fortunately none have been hurt(other than pride), but I fear the time is comming, especially since the tend to not wear their seatbelts. The knowledge/skills gained while wheeling a stock rig pay a large impact on your wheeling when you eqip a rig with all of the goodies available today, most of which weren't available 18yrs ago.

IMO wheeling a basically stock(31's are really the only mod neded) rig for a couple of years is the best way to learn the skills necessary for wheeling a well equiped rig in the future. Granted if your first stock rig came w/a selectable/or non-selectable locker you would learn to wheel with it, but it shouldn't be your first upgrade if yours came with open diffs. I would put the upgrades in this order, recovery gear, durable bumpers sliders, 31's pretty much the first upgrades, then dual t-cases(the ability to move really crawl through the rocks is often better than a locker), then a mild lift, larger tires gears/lockers, than if needed SAS's with larger tires and gears.


More than tread lightly. Leave it like you were never there, nor anyone else.
'90 X-cab 4.88's 33 BFG AT's, rr ARB, Headers, Ignition upgrade, cold air induction.
'91 X-cab 5.29's 315's BFG MT's, rr ARB, custom bumper and flatbed
Re: Where to start? [Re: Snowtoy] #803825 04/11/07 05:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 199
gueroblanco Offline
Wheeler
Quote
Having the ability to pick a line through a rocky section...

that is the key right there, you need to be able to pick a line, not just lumber in there with a giant lift / tires / lockers and just figure that with all your mods you can go thru anything. i started driving offroad at 16 y.o. on old logging roads in upper yuba co.,CA and all i had was a stock 82 honda hatchback at first. when you're in a CAR on an over grown logging trail you learn what you can take and whats gonna get you in trouble real fast. not saying you should stay completely stock for a long time, but if you're skilled, and you're not plannin on goin all out right away, you can get in and out of plenty of places with stock everything. try some easy trails stock, and get a feel for your skill level. and if you have the 3.0 in that, runnin 31's, you've got PLENTY to work with already. trust me, iv'e also got a '94 runner runnin the same stuff you got and ive gone through 2 foot deep red clay mud, ive gone down trails i never thought i could make it through and never gotten stuck yet, except in some deep icy snow, but i wasn't on the trail then.
for now, just spend your money on all the stuff that snowtoy mentioned and start small on easy trails.


'95 runner 3vze/r150f
Re: Where to start? [Re: gueroblanco] #803826 04/11/07 05:45 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 21
thefarky Offline OP
Need a Spot
Thanks again for the replies everyone. All your advice has really helped. I plan on getting recovery gear soon, but should I buy it all separately or in a kit? I will start off on easy trails with my buddies and maybe learn a little from them. Then work my way up with mods and such. Thanks again. I will try to post up my progress as I go along.


Cheers.


1995 Toyota Pickup, SR5 3.0V6, 31X10.50 Mud Tracs
Re: Where to start? [Re: thefarky] #803827 04/11/07 07:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 15,887
kewlynx Offline
Toyota & Classifieds Moderator
*****
You can get a lot of stuff seperately; shackles and stuff you can get in a kit; I think www.marlincrawler.com offers something.

Here's one of our other threads that you can glean some info off of.
Unstuck kit

Your bare mins at this point:
Class B,C fire extinguisher
tow strap (no hooks)
heavy gloves
basic first aid kit
shovel
axe

The last two I think are required in the Lower 48 if you're out on Forest Circus roads in the summer.


http://www.walkablecommunities.org/

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.

**ubi apis- ibi salus**
Re: Where to start? [Re: thefarky] #803828 04/11/07 09:05 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,568
Snowtoy Offline
Roll Me Over
Quote
I plan on getting recovery gear soon, but should I buy it all separately or in a kit?

A couple of companies offer recovery gear, but none of them are that complete, most of us carry way more stuff than any company could really sell as a complete kit, and a lot of it(beyond the basics) is tailored to our experiences of what works, and what we can make work. I would start with the recovery snatch strap, a shovel, hi-lift jack, front and rear recovery points on your truck, and a way to air up your tires when you are done wheeling. There have been a couple of posts here about what people carry, a search should turn them up, along with the types of onboard air(OBA) that are available.

Quote
I will start off on easy trails with my buddies and maybe learn a little from them.

Most of us who have been doing this for a long time all started out on the easy trails, and is probably why we are still driving the same rigs in relatively good condition. Probably the best advice I ever heard uttered on the trail, is "Check your ego at the trail head", basically let your mind/gut be the judge of what you should attempt to do and not let your buddies convince you to do it.


More than tread lightly. Leave it like you were never there, nor anyone else.
'90 X-cab 4.88's 33 BFG AT's, rr ARB, Headers, Ignition upgrade, cold air induction.
'91 X-cab 5.29's 315's BFG MT's, rr ARB, custom bumper and flatbed
Re: Where to start? [Re: Snowtoy] #803829 04/11/07 03:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 199
gueroblanco Offline
Wheeler
Quote
basically let your mind/gut be the judge of what you should attempt to do and not let your buddies convince you to do it.

yea i did the latter when i was younger and totalled my 90 suburban. i think i got the unofficial world WRECKord for suburban jumps though <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />


'95 runner 3vze/r150f
Re: Where to start? [Re: Snowtoy] #803830 04/11/07 05:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,986
Red_Chili Offline
Toyota Section Staffer
Quote
Quote
Quote
Since you are new to the hobby, you don't need a locker, all a locker will do for you now is get you into trouble on the trail.

yes, but the flip side is that a selectable locker can save you from a lot sticky situations. An automatic locker can be scary on ice, but is inexpensive. I started with a pretty much bone stock truck with a locrite and I could keep up with my buddies in their Jeeps with 35" tires and winches and I never got stuck. In fact I was the one doing the pulling. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/nana.gif" alt="" /> I'm 20 and have been driving since I was twelve and have had four years prior experience on a dirtbike, so it might be different, but I don't know your story.


...Having the ability to pick a line through a rocky section ...

Perhaps that is the difference; 88ToyTruck picks superb lines, he is very good at it. I'd like to say he gets it from me, but... um...


-Bill
'87 4Runner w/ '96 5VZ-FE, 'Red Chili II'
'97 Taco XtraCab 3RZ-FE, 'BlackBean'
TLCA # 13257, Rising Sun 4x4 Club Land Use Coordinator
"He who stops being better stops being good." -Oliver Cromwell
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