So it's been a while since my last Jasper rant. Some of you may remember the oil leak my engine developed between the head and timing cover after about 10k miles and the month long fight I had with them to pay for it. Recently (after about 30k) it started burning a qt of oil every 500 miles or so. I took it in again under warranty and $100 later they said that it was a bad PCV valve and wasn't covered under warranty. 500 more miles, another qt of oil gone.

I went back and forth with Jasper for a few months about this trying heavier weight oils, high mileage oil etc. with no improvement. Finally, after a letter to the VP of Sales, they agreed to let me take it in again for investigation. After a barrage of testing and waiting on Jasper (took over a month), the shop determined that a ring had failed and scored the wall of cyl#3. A new engine was shipped to them and the old one was returned to Jasper.

Fast forward another week-Truck is done but Jasper won't pay up for the $1500 worth of labor because they "haven't finished their investigation." Finally, after I called the warranty tech every day for a week I get a call saying that they determined the damage was due to detonation and is not covered under their warranty but they won't charge me for the replacement engine, I ONLY have to cover the labor. I was obviously quite shocked as it was running fine, plugs came out looking good, no signs of detonation when driving, timing was spot-on. The shop was also baffled by this as Jasper made them drive it 300miles and they noticed no signs of anything they claimed, but Jasper wouldn't back down.

I finally went ahead and paid the shop since they were kind of caught in the middle and am now drafting yet another letter to the VP as well as the BBB and any other consumer advocacy group I can find. My injectors are on their way to get flow tested and I will be trying to validate the rest of my fuel and ignition systems.

For anyone considering buying ANYTHING from these guys, think again. Everyone that recommended them to me had never had a problem that required the use of their "warranty." While this says that they do make a quality product for the most part, most people pay the premium they charge because of their 3yr/75k warranty. While they do not disclose it at the time of purchase, they will only cover $52/hr for labor, even if it is a defect on their part, leaving you to pay the balance. Most shops in my area charge $75-85/hr, I don't think you'll find anyone in the country that will take anything near $52/hr.

Jasper will also do their best to make you and the shop you choose (from THEIR provider list) give up. Their technicians treated myself and the service managers at both of the shops that did the warranty work like idiots. The last service manager commented that their technicians were some of the most arrogant people he had ever spoken with. After this experience they are no longer doing business with Jasper and are now sourcing engines and transmissions from other vendors.

I understand that Jasper has a good reputation, but I'd be willing to bet that anyone recommending them has not had to deal with a warranty issue. I paid $1500 more for an engine from them over a local rebuilder because of their warranty and reputation, and have now spent another $1600 on labor to avoid voiding my warranty (can't work on it yourself by their warranty policy). I could have done a nice engine swap with the extra $3100 or had my Supra running and putting out 400hp <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I just wanted to post my experience and hopefully save some people from the nightmare I've been through. I'm actually considering selling my 4-Runner because I'm so sick of dealing with it and Jasper, although I'll probably keep it because that would be letting them win....

Wow, alot of the mitsubishi guys have been having these problems on their remanufactured 4cyl and V6 motors..

Personally.. I bought a montero with a remanufactured (canadian) motor in it.. with a 5yr/100k mile warranty in it.. and 2years/30k into the motor it had slop in the crank bearings, but ran like a top otherwise. The warranty was transferrable, but it does not say anything in the warranty agreement about having to pay $100 to transfer the warranty, it just states it transfers one time and and the second owner does not get labor, only parts. Well.. the shop claimed I didn't pay the $100 fee to transfer the warranty (which has to be bogus) <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> He refused to tell me who the company was he got the engine from, and just about forced me to leave his shop when I started mentioning legal stuff.

Anyways.. I ended up having to install an new crank/bearing kit for the new owner of the truck because I was forced to sell it cheap (he paid for parts) and really set me back being so broke at the time.

I say screw remanufactured motors.. it's worthless. I am considering a remanufactured shortblock for my SR, but that's only because I can actually take it apart and check everything prior to building the rest of the engine on top of it.

BTW.. after 30k miles you should have seen the bearings/crank.. it looks like it was assempled with dirt for assembly lube. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Sorry to hear about your troubles man.. you're not the only one out there.. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Some info from EB on Detonation for those interested:
"*Morning!

Detonation is a completely different thing from pinging, although typically
both can exhibit and pinging can lead to detonation. The other way around
cannot happen because of the cycle of when each occurs.

.Pinging is when the fuel and air are set off early, or when a hot spot in a
cylinder ignites the mixture along with the spark plug also setting it off.

The result is two flame fronts colliding, this noise is the crackling sound
we hear. The mass of metal surrounding dampens the noise, so it sounds a
bit like some marbles rattling in a tin can inside the engine.

Detonation happens after top dead center, the mixture reaches the
distillation point all at once instead of vapor layers igniting in a gradual
curve at the cylinder heats up.

Since it happens after top dead center and all of the fuel and air ignites
at once, there is no sound. There is only extreme pressure created. Well,
sometimes a sound, normally with the big cloud of smoke followed by
silence....*LOL**..

It is extremely rare for a street engine to go into detonation, this is
because we are on and off the throttle. When off the throttle, the cylinder
purges and the temperature drops, detonation stops. So we see the results
of detonation in racing engines held at full throttle, and this happens
typically below torque peak. The engine in this situation will never
recover from the detonation situation unless the throttle is lifted, then
recovery is instant.

We also see the results of detonation with engines used for hauling or heavy
loads, long pulls uphill using full or close to full throttle.

The result? Something breaks, and this is almost without fail.

Pinging can be present and not create a lot of sound. A sharp spot in the
cylinder, some carbon buildup that is glowing and igniting the mixture out
of time, tuning errors, etc. This creates heat, the damage will be
particles of aluminum pulled out of the piston head, the color of the
underhead of the piston will be a dark chocolate or black, and rings can
over heat and fail in time. Actual detonation looks similar.

It is far more likely you had a cylinder or more running too hot, this would
fail the rings.

What you didn't have...is "detonation." Just my opinon from your
description. This doesn't mean they are not telling you the truth, the term
"detonation" has become a catchall phrase for meaning, '"Piston got too
hot."

I hear it every day from very good techs who don't really have a complete
understanding of what it is.

Hope that helps, sorry, didn't mean to write an article, but it is a
complicated subject. You may post this if you like, it might help someone
else to understand.
Ted"

What a nightmare. I've heard nothing but bad about Jasper <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/barf.gif" alt="" />

Where is DougB? I think he likes Jasper engines, all 3 or 4 of them, I dont remember. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" />

I want to rebuild my own engine. If I do only half as good as FrankR, the engine will be great.

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> My first thought was of Doug when I saw this thread title. I've honestly never heard of anyone who was happy with their Jasper...but then again, happy people don't always post, and pissed people usually do <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Update-Got my injectors back, looks like they were working fine. The worst one flowed 3cc/min more after cleaning, not a big deal:


Rest of the fuel system is in tip-top shape, letter #2 will be going out to the VP this week...

Wow Josh, I'm really sorry to hear about that. I feel partly responsible for your misery here considering that I responded to your request for information ages ago with a vote for Jasper while you were trying to figure out which route to go with your engine. at the time, you didn't have a whole lot of time or space to work with, since, if I remember correctly, you were heading to Austin in short order.

my Jasper's still running well for me, though given your experience I doubt I'd use them again or recommend them to anyone else. if there's one thing I can't stand, it's poor customer service, and having to jump through hoops for a fair shake.

my first choice at the time for my own engine needs was EB, but Ted told me at the time they weren't building any longblocks. my next one'll be from them, though.

No worries, I'm glad you got a good one <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

Funny that you replied, I was just about to update. I wrote another letter to the VP of sales about my most recent experience and got a call on Friday from one of his people. They still stuck to their story about detonation but agreed to pay their estimated hours for the engine replacement at $80/hr (shop rate) instead of their normal $52/hr.

I'm still short on the total but it's better than nothing. I'm glad I got something back, but it's pretty sad that it took 2 letters to a VP to get any sort of response.

>>>*One fact is true about engine problems. Most problems are caused in the field.

But not all, and this is something I know of for sure! ANY part can have a defect, I don't care who makes it. Plus I happen to know I can FUBAR a job as well as anyone else, I have learned to simply admit I made a mistake.

In dealing with people, I found many years ago that it is always best to just fix the thing and go on. Sometimes we KNOW why a part broke, the evidence will be clear. SOMETIMES we don't have a clue!

I have no less than a dozen timing chain tensioners that show where the top oil pump bolt jammed the tensioner pad, or the poor thing was smashed. (After all, no one wants it to fall off, right?) I have dug enough silicone out of engines to seal up a bulldozer, and had people look at me blank when I asked what the timing setting was or for a torque or clearence spec.

When this happens, I say "Let's chat." with a smile and I try to explain, then fix the thing. This can be fun when dealing with someone who can field strip a Nuclear powerplant with a putty knife, but really shouldn't be inside an engine.

The customer will always be upset when a part doesn't work or breaks, so why in the world would a supplier want to create even MORE upset by giving them the "It's your fault" stuff?

The last line tells the truth of your story, you would and should be more upset with the lack of responses, or excuses to a response than the initial problem.

Metal is metal, sometimes it breaks. Sometimes we have no idea why.

I remember a turbo engine my son Tod built. It came back in, let's just say there had been enough heat energy there to make bisquits and gravy for the next full year, no doubt.

Tod just built the engine over himself, handed it to the customer at no charge along with a 60 minute lecture. Probably $3-400 out of pocket, NBD.

The customer knows what happened of course. But that one gentleman referred added business at least 30 times over and still does some 5 years later.

My advice to folks in business is to EXPECT concerns from time to time, take care of them and go on. So what if the customer made an error, now there is a chance to avoid a repeat. That proves to be an asset in making the phone ring.

*Seems to work for us.....glad they are helping you at least some, though...*EB