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Re: No spark, no injectors, no current to f. pump - fearing the worst!
[Re: FrankR]
#831130
08/19/07 05:38 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 56
OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
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WOW! Thanks for the info and all the support..once again! I'm a stranger; new to this forum and the support you've given me is truly...I'm crying (not really but truly overwhelmed!) <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> Answers and questions; To generation one - The car is a '92 2nd gen model, but built in 91 Dec. I don't know if it is the 24 valve but pretty sure it isn't. No books at this time, Haynes Pajero Manual on it's way, but mail here in Banff Canada is SLO~W! It sometimes takes a MONTH for things from the USA to arrive! Yes, Canada Post employees are all drug addicts! So the manual I am using right now is everyone in this forum plus any info I find on the web. A question from me - if the ECU is dead, would it not show a code when trying to start up (but no fire), even after the battery was previously disconnected? Bad gas - I wish it were, but I have no spark or power to injectors... Is it possible the ECU is sending a normal signal, but is due to the ECU being dead or not running right? Bad connection - I will look into that as soon as I can. I read a post about a guy tapping on a relay in the pas. footwell and the motor fired up. Is there a relay/fuse separate from the ECU to protect it? Maybe that's the problem? Ed - If alternator was malfunctioning, wouldn't the car at least fire up via battery power? The starter turns the motor strong, it's just that I have no fire up... Frank - Yes it took 3 days to charge the battery. It was pulled out of the car charged. The charger is in near new condition. I would think the battery is bad, but as of now, (one month later and after dozens of trying to fire up) it is still holding charge. I don't think the battery contacts or ground is the issue as the starter is turning strong. But you are right about the ground wire for the ECU. Maybe this is corroded? I'm on baby duty this weekend while my wife works, but may have a few hours to check the car out. I will get back to you guys with results! Truly thankful!!
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Re: No spark, no injectors, no current to f. pump - fearing the worst!
[Re: inokiyo]
#831131
08/19/07 09:47 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 950
Rock Warrior
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I didnt go back to read your posts, but if this is an "imported" car then you need to hear this: the American model year is one later than japanese. (If you have a 1992 japanese then it's a 1993 american)
I thought a 1993 was basically the same powertrain as the 1989-. I dont know. And being Japanese domestic might complicate matters,
those russian books (look in your PM box) will help to diagnose your no-spark issue.
1989 5 door montero 3.0 auto stock original Japanese about 200k miles
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Re: No spark, no injectors, no current to f. pump - fearing the worst!
[Re: generation_one]
#831132
08/19/07 10:08 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 950
Rock Warrior
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Last edited by generation_one; 08/19/07 10:24 AM.
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Re: No spark, no injectors, no current to f. pump - fearing the worst!
[Re: generation_one]
#831133
08/20/07 05:15 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 56
OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
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I didnt go back to read your posts, but if this is an "imported" car then you need to hear this: the American model year is one later than japanese. (If you have a 1992 japanese then it's a 1993 american)
I thought a 1993 was basically the same powertrain as the 1989-. I dont know. And being Japanese domestic might complicate matters,
those russian books (look in your PM box) will help to diagnose your no-spark issue. Holy COW!! Maybe I should cancel the Haynes manual now!! THANKS generation one!! Had to take care of our daughter all day today, but will try and find some time to go through the pages. I also need to pull out the ECU and see if it's burned/ corroded. Will get back to you! HOLY COW! Thanks man!! Ken
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Re: No spark, no injectors, no current to f. pump - fearing the worst!
[Re: inokiyo]
#831134
08/20/07 05:39 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 56
OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
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Quick question - If the ECU is sending out a code, that would mean it has power, thus I can rule out "no power" to the ECU due to relay malfunction, bad battery, bad alternator, burned fusible link? Ken
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Re: No spark, no injectors, no current to f. pump - fearing the worst!
[Re: inokiyo]
#831135
08/20/07 05:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 13,649
Web Wheeler
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Yes, but the ecu may still have damage that won't allow it to ground the coil in the relay. I would try checking/replacing the relay first (junk yard part - the relay is NOT usually a failure source).
The most common source of failure in efi systems is the wiring harness connections and power supply paths (connectors, fusible links, fuses, circuit breakers). If I had the wiring harness diagram for the efi, I could give you exact spots to check.
Without the diagram, these are in part just educated guesses based on prior mitsu models with similar engines. The efi relay probably supplies power to the ignition and at least part of the ecu as well as the fuel pump. They used to be called dual relays because there is actually two relays in the steel box. The efi system needs ign switched 12v+, unswitched 12v+, and ground, plus the various sensor inputs, power to the sensors, sensor grounds, and actuator outputs (injectors, fidle valves, idle stepper motors, ignition timing control, tranny controls, throttle by wire, etc.) and the dual relay coil ground that controls that fuel pump relay. I would try to identify the individual relay connectors and check for constant 12v, ign on 12v, and ign start 12v, apply battery power to the relays' coil circuits and check power path continuity to the ecu (and ignition) and fuel pump in both ign on and ign start states. In the process, unconnect and reconnect all the ecu and relay connectors, spraying in between with electrical contact cleaner from RadioShack or equal. The efi main common ground should be somewhere on the body metal near the efi relay and ecu, probably on the passenger footwell sidewall, and should have several black wires all grounded there. The factory shop manual should show the location of all the common ground points. While you have it opened up enough to look at this stuff, take the ecu loose (a cover, a couple of connectors you want to clean up anyway, and probably 2-3 10mm bolts and remove the ecu case cover to expose the bare 'lectrons and the ecu printed circuit board and sniff for a dead fish smell which is diagnostic for capacitor leakage.
Mitsu factory manuals have a detailed section on reading circuit diagrams (how the wires are connected and to what with what kind of connectors and with what weight wires) and harness diagrams (how all the wires and connectors are physically routed in the truck), including meaning of all the symbols and wiring codes. It takes some study, but once you get the hang of it, you can trace the wiring paths for each device and find the wire location in connectors and harnesses, the color code of the wire and it's identifying stripe(s), the heaviness/gauge of the wire, and what else the wire is connected to, and where the whole circuit grounds.
I trace circuits from power source to final ground point on the diagram, like following the path of water in a pipe system. The battery is the water souce. The ground is the final drain for all the water the devices did not use. Fuses are safety valves. Switches are valves. Resistors are pressure limiters. Flow quantity is current so lots of current needs fat pipes (wires). Voltage is pressure in the pipes.
Not responsible for advice not taken...
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Re: No spark, no injectors, no current to f. pump - fearing the worst!
[Re: fasteddy]
#831136
08/21/07 05:00 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 56
OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
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Hi fasteddy, well I talked to my mechanic, he said he checked the wiring, fusible links but was not able to locate the relay, so that isn't checked at this point. Everythig so far seems fine. So I took the ECU out and opened it up. I do see corrosion near the capacitators (the things that look like mini black beer cans, right? Dead fish smell...I think so. Not a whole lot, actually very minimal, but there is black gunk around pins, solders, etc. I took a few close up pics, I'll see if I can post them. For an ECU rebuild, can anyone provide feedback on a company called "ECM to Go"? I was on their website and they seem to be reliable... Or, if anyone can reccommend any other companies, that would be great too! Thanks guys!! Ken
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Re: No spark, no injectors, no current to f. pump - fearing the worst!
[Re: inokiyo]
#831137
08/21/07 05:14 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 56
OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
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[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/9474415@N06/1189150299/in/set-72157601583513559/[/img] [img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/9474415@N06/1190020448/in/set-72157601583513559/[/img] Hopefully I've added two pics showing corrosion on the ECU! Ken
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Re: No spark, no injectors, no current to f. pump - fearing the worst!
[Re: inokiyo]
#831138
08/21/07 05:27 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 56
OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
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Nope I guess it didn't work, but you can still view the pics by going to the url. Ken
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Re: No spark, no injectors, no current to f. pump - fearing the worst!
[Re: inokiyo]
#831139
08/21/07 06:21 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 56
OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
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Quick question - has anyone ever repaired their ECU on their own? I've seen threads and a web page on the Mitsubishi Four Wheel Drive Club of North America showing the how-to's. It seems pretty straight forward, but obviously replacing the capacitators is just on step. I would think I need to check for shorts, other burned parts as well... Ken
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