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Re: The White Whale - its big [Re: FrankR] #835795 09/15/07 12:58 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,634
bretwalda Offline OP
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Always a classic tho: BBC gets the release feed a little too early


For goodness sakes. What is behind the woman appears to be multiple video screen panels on which a delayed loop is being run. Look to the left side of the screen panel behind her and you can see another window - the edges of the buildings don't align as they would if those were windows directly behind her.

If the folks who believe this stuff aren't careful, they may someday experience their own version of Ruby Ridge or Waco, TX.

Frank



LOLZ. Thats called a window Frank. Not even the BBC went that far. They just can't find it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> The window next to her is the glass cube wall, perpendicular to the window, clearly reflecting the far right side of what can be seen through the window. Of course maybe TV screens had wood frames and window latches way back then I can't prove it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />


Re: The White Whale - its big [Re: holger] #835796 09/15/07 01:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2000
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little_joe Offline
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its totally disgusting that some think the government wasn't involved in the 9/11 attacks


I am outta here.


You keep threatening this, but never live up to it. Please, stay true to your word.


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Re: The White Whale - its big [Re: little_joe] #835797 09/15/07 01:45 AM
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sparkem Offline
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They were in on it too? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> I guess its true, someone wrote the time on the screen.

If this country is so bad, get out.

Re: The White Whale - its big [Re: bretwalda] #835798 09/15/07 01:54 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
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FrankR Offline
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The window next to her is the glass cube wall, perpendicular to the window, clearly reflecting the far right side of what can be seen through the window.


Yes, it does look like that's correct, but is it impossible to think that someone heard a warning that the building was in danger of collapsing and after several repetitions, the story became "The building has collapsed"? OK, it was reported prematurely - but that by itself doesn't explain how the premature reporting came about. Speculation and conjecture can sure drive conspiracy theories.

Frank


'89 [color:"white"]G-Raider[color:"white"] [color:"black"]Supercharged 3.0L, MegaSquirt 2, lockup A/T, 2.5" exhaust, 172k, Cibie H4s/Oscar SCs, Hella Micro DE fogs, Cobra CB, Superwinch hubs, LSD rear/Aussie Locker front, Bilsteins, Lifeline AGM, Rust-Oleum
Re: The White Whale - its big [Re: FrankR] #835799 09/15/07 03:43 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,634
bretwalda Offline OP
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Its impossible from the perspective of the official conspiracy. Quite simply someone on the other end creating and/or dispersing the official version hit the release button to the wire feed 30 minutes too early.

Which isn't too hard to believe when we listen to folk that were there when it came down.

Kevin Mcpadden - AirForce reserve medic

"its gonna blow up" & pyroclastic flows

more of the same

WTC7 survivor - if you're gonna selectively look at the evidence then at least look at this one


Just a sampling of testimony regarding WTC 1&2:

Rich Banaciski -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 22]
We were there I don't know, maybe 10, 15 minutes and then I just remember there was just an explosion. It seemed like on television they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions.
Interview, 12/06/01, New York Times

Brian Becker -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 28]
So I think that the building was really kind of starting to melt. We were -- like, the melt down was beginning. The collapse hadn't begun, but it was not a fire any more up there. It was like -- it was like that -- like smoke explosion on a tremendous scale going on up there.
Interview, 10/09/01, New York Times

Greg Brady -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.) [Battalion 6]
We were standing underneath and Captain Stone was speaking again. We heard -- I heard 3 loud explosions. I look up and the north tower is coming down now, 1 World Trade Center.
Interview, , New York Times

Timothy Burke -- Firefigter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 202]
Then the building popped, lower than the fire, which I learned was I guess, the aviation fuel fell into the pit, and whatever floor it fell on heated up really bad and that's why it popped at that floor. That's the rumor I heard. But it seemed like I was going oh, my god, there is a secondary device because the way the building popped. I thought it was an explosion.
Interview, 01/22/02, New York Times

Ed Cachia -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 53]
It actually gave at a lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit, because we originally had thought there was like an internal detonation explosives because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down. With that everybody was just stunned for a second or two, looking at the tower coming down.
Interview, 12/06/05, New York Times

Craig Carlsen -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 8]
I guess about three minutes later you just heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions. Interview, 01/25/02, New York Times

Jason Charles -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.)
We start walking back there and then I heard a ground level explosion and I'm like holy s___, and then you heard that twisting metal wreckage again. Then I said s___ and everybody started running and I started running behind them, and we get to the door.
Interview, 01/23/02, New York Times

Frank Cruthers -- Chief (F.D.N.Y.) [Citywide Tour Commander]
And while I was still in that immediate area, the south tower, 2 World Trade Center, there was what appeared to be at first an explosion. It appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all four sides, materials shot out horizontally. And then there seemed to be a momentary delay before you could see the beginning of the collapse.
Interview, 10/31/01, New York Times

James Curran -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
A guy started scremaing to run. When I got underneath the north bridge I looked back and you heard it, I heard like every floor went chu-chu-chu. Looked back and from the pressure everything was getting blown out of the floors before it actually collapsed.
Interview, 12/30/01, New York Times

Kevin Darnowski -- Paramedic (E.M.S.)
I started walking back up towards Vesey Street. I heard three explosions, and then we heard like groaning and grinding, and tower two started to come down.
Interview, 11/09/01, New York Times

Karin Deshore -- Captain (E.M.S.)
Somewhere around the middle of the World Trade Center, there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building.
Interview, 11/07/01, New York Times

Brian Dixon -- Battalion Chief (F.D.N.Y.)
I was watching the fire, watching the people jump and hearing a noise and looking up and seeing -- it actually looked -- the lowest floor of fire in the south tower actually looked like someone had planted explosives around it because the whole bottom I could see -- I could see two sides of it and the other side -- it just looked like that floor blew out. I looked up and you could actually see everything blew out on the one floor. I thought, geez, this looks like an explosion up there, it blew out.
Interview, 10/25/01, New York Times

Michael Donovan -- Captain (F.D.N.Y.)
Anyway, with that I was listening, and there was an incredibly loud rumbling. I never got to look up. People started running for the entrances to the parking garages. They started running for the entrances. I started running without ever looking up. The roar became tremendous. I fell on the way to the parking garages. Debris was starting to fall all around me. I got up, I got into the parking garages, was knocked down by the percussion. I thought there had been an explosion or a bomb that they had blown up there. The Vista International Hotel was my first impression, that they had blown it up. I never got to see the World Trade Center coming down.
Interview, 11/09/01, New York Times

James Drury -- Assistant Commissioner (F.D.N.Y.)
We were in the process of getting some rigs moved when I turned, as I heard a tremendous roar, explosion, and saw that the first of the two towers was starting to come down.
When the dust started to settle, I headed back down towards the World Trade Center and I guess I came close to arriving at the corner of Vesey and West again where we started to hear the second roar. That was the north tower now coming down. I should say that people in the street and myself included thought that the roar was so loud that the explosive - bombs were going off inside the building.
...
The sight of the jumpers was horrible and the turning around and seeing that first tower come down was unbelieveable. The sound it made. As I said I thought the terrorists planted explosives somewhere in the building. That's how loud it was, crackling explosive, a wall. That's about it. Any questions?
Interview, 10/16/01, New York Times

Gary Gates -- Lieutenant (F.D.N.Y.)
I looked up, and the building exploded, the building that we were very close to, which was one tower. The whole top came off like a volcano.
Interview, 10/12/01, New York Times

Kevin Gorman -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 22]
North Tower:
John Malley, who was right behind me, I turned around for him, because he was doing something, either putting his coat on or something, and as I was looking at him I heard the explosion, looked up, and saw like three floors explode, saw the antenna coming down, and turned around and ran north.
Interview, 01/09/02, New York Times

Stephen Gregory -- Assistant Commissioner (F.D.N.Y.)
We both for whatever reason -- again, I don't know how valid this is with everything that was going on at that particular point in time, but for some reason I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought -- at that time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been as a result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.
...
[It was at] the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw.

He said did you see anything by the building? And I said what do you mean by see anything? He said did you see flashes? I said, yes, well, I thought it was just me. He said no, I saw them too.

I know about the explosions on the upper floors. This was like at eye level. I didn't have to go like this. Because I was looking this way. I'm not going to say it was on the first floor or the second floor, but somewhere in that area I saw to me what appeared to be flashes.
Interview, 10/03/01, New York Times

Timothy Julian -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 118]
We came out from 90 West, made a left, headed east, and right when we got to the corner of Washington and Albany, that's when I heard the building collapse.
First I thought it was an explosion. I thought maybe there was bomb on the plane, but delayed type of thing, you know secondary device.
...
You know, and I just heard like an explosion and then cracking type of noise, and then it sounded like a freight train, rumbling and picking up speed, and I remember I looked up, and I saw it coming down.
Interview, 12/26/01, New York Times

Art Lakiotes -- Chief (F.D.N.Y.) [Safety Command]
Tower one now comes down. Same thing but this time some of us take off straight down West Street, because we realized later on, subconsciously we wanted to be near buildings. We all thought it was secondary explosives or more planes or whatever.
Interview, 12/03/01, New York Times

John Malley -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Ladder 22]
We were walking into darkness. As we walked through those revolving doors, that's when we felt the rumble. I felt the rumbling, and then I felt the force coming at me. I was like, what the hell is that? In my mind it was a bomb going off. The pressure got so great, I stepped back behind the columns separating the revolving doors. Then the force just blew past me. It blew past me it seemed for a long time. In my mind I was saying what the hell is this and when is it going to stop? Then it finally stopped, that pressure which I thought was a concussion of an explosion.
Interview, 12/12/01, New York Times

Julio Marrero -- E.M.T. (F.D.N.Y.)
I was screaming from the top of my lungs, and I must have been about ten feet away from her and she couldn't even hear me, because the building was so loud, the explosion, that she couldn't even hear me. I just saw everybody running; and she saw us running, and she took off behind us.
Interview, 10/25/01, New York Times

Orlando Martinez -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.)
There was an explosion and after we started running, I was able to make it to Chambers and West, where I only saw one EMT, EMT Vega. She is new here. She was the only EMT I saw from the station and with all the cops and everybody else running, rescue workers. I grabbed her and I said just stay with me. We will try to get out of here.
Interview, 11/01/01, New York Times

Joseph Meola -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.) [Engine 91]
As we are looking up at the building, what I saw was, it looked like the building was blowing out on all four sides. We actually heard the pops.
Interview, 12/11/01, New York Times

Keith Murphy -- (F.D.N.Y.)
I was standing kind of on the edge of where our elevator bank met the big elevator bank. That was when the - I determined that's when the north tower collapses. We are standing there and the first thing that happened, which I still think is strange to me, the lights went out. Completely pitch black. Since we are in that core little area of the building, there is no natural light. No nothing, I didn't see a thing.
I had heard right before the lights went out, I had heard a distant boom boom boom, sounded like three explosions. I don't know what it was. At the time, I would have said they sounded like bombs, but it was boom boom boom and then the lights all go out. I hear someone say oh, s___, that was just for the lights out. I would say about 3, 4 seconds, all of a sudden this tremendous roar. It sounded like being in a tunnel with the train coming at you.
Interview, 12/05/01, New York Times

Janice Olszewski -- Captain (E.M.S.)
I thought more could be happening down there. I didn't know if it was an explosion. I didn't know it was a collapse at that point. I thought it was an explosion or a secondary device, a bomb, the jet -- plane exploding, whatever.
Interview, 11/07/01, New York Times

Juan Rios -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.)
I was in the back waiting, you know, so we could wait for patients and I was hooking up the regulator to the O-2, when I hear people screaming and a loud explosion, and I heard like "sssssssss..." the dust like "sssssssss..." So I come out of the bus, and I look and I see a big cloud of dust and debris coming from the glass...
Interview, 10/10/01, New York Times

Michael Ober -- E.M.T. (E.M.S.)
Then we heard a rumble, some twisting metal, we looked up in the air, and to be totally honest, at first, I don't know exactly -- but it looked to me just like an explosion. It didn't look like the building was coming down, it looked like just one floor had blown completely outside of it. I was sitting there looking at it. I just never thought they would ever come down, so I didn't think they were coming down. I just froze and stood there looking at it.
Interview, 10/16/01, New York Times

Angel Rivera -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
Mike Mullan walked one flight up, and then the most horrendous thing happened. That's when hell came down. It was like a huge, enormous explosion. I still can hear it. Everything shook. Everything went black. The wind rushed, very slowly [sound], all the dust, all the -- and everything went dark.
Interview, 01/22/02, New York Times

Daniel Rivera -- Paramedic (E.M.S.) [Battalion 31]
Then that's when -- I kept on walking close to the south tower, and that's when that building collapsed.

It was a frigging noise. At first I thought it was -- do you ever see professional demolition where they set the charges on certain floors and then you hear "Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop"? That's exactly what -- because I thought it was that. When I heard that frigging noise, that's when I saw the building coming down.
Interview, 10/10/01, New York Times

Kennith Rogers -- Firefighter (F.D.N.Y.)
Meanwhile we were standing there with about five companies and we were just waiting for our assignment and then there was an explosion in the south tower, which, according to this map, this exposure just blew out the flames. A lot of guys left at that point. I kept watching. Floor after floor after floor. One floor under another after another and when it hit about the fifth floor, I figured it was a bomb, because it looked like a synchronized deliberate kind of thing. I was there in '93.
Interview, 12/10/01, New York Times

Patrick Scaringello -- Lieutenant (E.M.S.)
I started to treat patients on my own when I heard the explosion from up above. I looked up, I saw smoke and flame and then I saw the top tower tilt, start to twist and lean. I was assisting in pulling more people out from debris, when I heard the second tower explode. When I tried to evacuate the area, by running up Fulton, got halfway up.
Interview, 10/10/01, New York Times


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Re: The White Whale - its big [Re: bretwalda] #835800 09/15/07 04:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,892
stony-man Offline
Web Wheeler
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EVERYTHING those witnesses claimed to have heard can be explained, WITHOUT it being blown up with charges. I saw two of the guys who designed the building talking about it on TV a year or so ago. It was a chain reaction of floor falling onto floor. They had some facts and figures that seemed more than plausible.

I know. You think I'm nuts for NOT believing the conspiracy theory, and I think you're nuts for believing it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

Re: The White Whale - its big [Re: stony-man] #835801 09/15/07 04:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
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FrankR Offline
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Well, it's obvious that once the charges were set by the Bush twins at the direction of Dick Cheney, something had to light off the chain reaction....... so those guys from Saudi Arabia volunteered to light the fuse by flying the planes into the towers..... so simple, I don't understand why everyone can't see it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

Isn't Ron Paul the guy that's in favor of growing hemp.... industrial grade marijuana? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> Yep, a little more of that stuff and we could have the Pope on trial for blowing up the towers. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Frank <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


'89 [color:"white"]G-Raider[color:"white"] [color:"black"]Supercharged 3.0L, MegaSquirt 2, lockup A/T, 2.5" exhaust, 172k, Cibie H4s/Oscar SCs, Hella Micro DE fogs, Cobra CB, Superwinch hubs, LSD rear/Aussie Locker front, Bilsteins, Lifeline AGM, Rust-Oleum
Re: The White Whale - its big [Re: bretwalda] #835802 09/15/07 04:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,258
DavidG Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Thanks for the info Bretwalda. Very interesting links; I always appreciate your inability to conform. I strongly believe you are the reincarnated soul of one of the first people murdered for supporting Copernicus' claim that the sun is the center of our solar system <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

There is no doubt in my mind these people heard and/or witnessed the same events. The question I have is, can someone prove what they THOUGHT was occuring was ACTUALLY what happened?

Another question: If there was indeed domestic-based involvement, what did the conspirators hope to gain by doing this? What DID they gain by doing this?

FWIW folks, the quotes Bretwalda supplied above can be found in the WORLD TRADE CENTER TASK FORCE INTERVIEW documents from the New York Times. I didn't check all of them, but the ones I did turned up. Just thought people would appreciate an independent review.

But don't take my word for it...


1997 Montero SR

<a href="www.georgiaoverland.com" target="_blank">www.georgiaoverland.com</a>
Re: The White Whale - its big [Re: stony-man] #835803 09/15/07 05:16 AM
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,956
lee_raider Offline
Body Damage is Cool
Quote


I know. You think I'm nuts for NOT believing the conspiracy theory, and I think you're nuts for believing it. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />


This is strange thread for me.......I seem to agree with the majority, and they with me. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


There are also many people who claim to have seen the Loch Ness monster, Big Foot, and yes, even Elvis Presley many years after his death. I don't take them too seriously.

But, as for all the quotes above, and many more that are similar......I am sure these people are not saying these things implying a conspiracy. In the heat of the moment, and it must of have been quite a confusing and scary moment, things aren't always as they seem. I am sure those people believed they were hearing explosions. I am also quite sure that a building that size, when beginning to collapse, does make quite a loud noise. And when the tremendous pressure from all the floors above starting caving in, it was sure to blow out all the windows and walls of the floors beneath them.

So, I believe that these people did, at least right then when it was happening, think there were secondary explosions. But I'd bet a lifetimes wages that, even right there in the moment, none of them were thinking that George Bush blew up the towers. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />










But, thinking about it tonight, I started wondering if Cheney had anything to do with the muffler falling off my truck 2 nights ago??? I did hear a loud noise right when it happened. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/nana.gif" alt="" />

Re: The White Whale - its big [Re: lee_raider] #835804 09/15/07 02:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
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sparkem Offline
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This is strange thread for me.......I seem to agree with the majority, and they with me.



I know, it's weird. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

There were a couple tornados here yesterday, bands of weather spun off of the hurricane. I think the hurricanes were produced form the oil companies so they could make the price of oil go up. I forgot to check of for mysterious planes.

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