I received a message that the service manager called but that's all. I want him to respond to my email so I forwarded it and also expressed about being unhappy that it didn't pass the smog check again! - the reason I brought my car to them. (DMV decided to exempt after explaining what happened)

Another thing I emailed them about is charging me $230.00 for the mass air flow sensor then finding this (I use an aftermarket reusable air filter)



I think I got suckered into buying something that could have just been cleaned. Yes, I did forget to wipe off any possible excess oil on the filter before installing it.

Also, I bought this 4runner as a certified used vehicle.

Oohhhhhkaaay.

I remember seeing the check eng lite/emissions part.
Didn't see anything about your aftermarket filter.

Yep, we keep telling people to take off their K&N's and all that, as it'll mess up the MAF. If you're unwilling to maintain the filter and the MAF, you are ahead to simply clean things up and put the OEM stuff back on.

This is common btw, even in our older 22RE's. Sux we didn't catch that.

Well, I wouldn't say "mess up the MAF". You just have to clean the MAF once in a while. It's probably once every several months for me to clean the MAF. I use an oiled Amsoil filter, which I clean once about every 5000 miles.


That's true.

My response in part:


Why does my bill say "air flow sensor" not "Air Fuel Ratio Sensor" then. I pulled the part number right off the bill: "Air flow sensor MSRP at $206.86 - $148.94 McCord's: - $230.07" When I was first contacted at home, I was told it was the mass airflow sensor. I told whoever it was to fix everything including the timing belt. They called again and told me the water pump was leaking. I said to fix that as well. Never did I deny any work......................

..some important information for anyone buying parts or servicing their vehicles through a shop:

http://www.repairtrust.com/index.html

More scrutinizing.......



What do you guys know about the air fuel ratio sensor at 90,000 miles for $230.00? Is it something the dealer says needs replacing just because the check engine light is on?

all the more reason to do my own mechanical work, always have always will...

#1-- go over to the Taco section and get into the FSM sticky there; seem to me we have a 2003 FSM there. Look up the emissions components you mention to make sure you don't have some stupid semantics going on. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" /> There's usually a component page for each subsystem's component locations. Be mindful of which engine type you're looking at however.

#2 Worth bookmarking; the tech articles there are extremely helpful--- www.autoshop101.com

I've never heard of the part you're talking about being changed, but then you're driving a pretty new rig; not something we see a lot of here. Other place to ask might be at www.ttora.com or www.tundrasolutions.com to see what might be trending, if anything.

>>>*I watched this thread for awhile, I can't help myself, so I have a comment or two.

It always pays to shop around a bit. Prices do vary, most suppliers are on "programmed" systems that have builtin steps of profit, as many as 10 to 20 levels, even more.

Like when I ran a NAPA store, this was known as "convenience." A nice programmed system, and we paid NAPA for the convenience.

The final price may well be simply the result of how MANY steps. Some of us actually ARE "distributors" and thus eliminate many middlemen.

The Nation of America works on middlemen, those who get in the flow of the money. This can be done by "owning" a regional or local supply system by contract.

So no matter who you purchase from, they all deal with the system. Very few are pure distributors, which simply means no...(or few) middlemen. Very few.

So most of us, should we need an item, will go to a parts store or regional discount outlet, also a retailer.

Suppliers working at the true wholesale level are rare, we do little if any advertising, and volumes are low in the scheme of things. If volumes get to be too high it affects marketing, then shoes attached to very large feet come down.

Small suppliers like us know our place and don't challenge the status quo most deal with. In my case, I invested 40 years in relationships to get to my purchase level, most can't do that.

Of course there must be a profit, the company that advertises the most will likely need the highest profit percentage.

A shop tech might get 45% of labor billed, a typical shop is now over $100 per hour. Employee costs, (benefits, related taxes, adds another 20%) Most dealerships are based on a flat rate manual, my experience is this does give adequate time for an experienced tech. A good tech should have no problem billing 10-12 hours in a typical 8 hour day, some with lessor skills might struggle to bill 5-6 hours.

The system is becoming a bit like lawyers in that respect. The attorney bills $250/hour, but his secretary pushes a button on a computer and prints out a form, 2 minutes.

That is still a 2 hour billing, the cost for the attorney to type up the form.

I see the "mechanic" becoming a thing of the past. There are less left every day, the ones who bill by actual hours worked.

Add in government that for some odd reason is just now finding a nearly completely unregulated industry, and vehicle repairs will continue to climb in cost. Government wants their share of everything, look at your phone bill to understand.

I remember running an ad, "Valve grinding..$7.50 each head" as our world was all V-8's with a rare inline six. Those from 1973.

Since we are moving, we were sorting out old paperwork. I found invoices from 1980, "Valve Job..$36.00"..really, for V-6, V8 engines....1990, "Valve job, $39.00."...2000.."Valve job, $79.75." I remember that last ad, I wrote it.

I think my son charges $150 for a set of V-8's today, we have competitors still advertising $79.00 pair...*About what it costs to properly clean and mag test a set of cast iron V-8's. The shop costs $60.00 per hour to keep the doors open in today's world, in my own case I have around 2.8 MILLION dollars invested in property and tooling over a 40 year period.

Tax breaks, I guess.

To do a valve job properly on a 3VZE V-6 is about 5 hours shop time, thus $500.00. Plus any needed parts, this is IF the machine shop intends to stay in business.

I looked at the initial quote on this one, I thought it was just fine and reasonable.

The term "MSRP" is exactly that, and has nothing at all to do with actual charges or even costs associated. In other words, meaningless.

The important thing is to ask first, and don't be afraid to negotiate. Often it is possible to save a lot doing this.

This from an old man who sells online and averages 11% overall. 11% isn't much, but we supply over 2 mil per year now, the fact is we can survive nicely on $220K gross profit per year. That is growing, not considering the wife's accident, a bit of a setback.

Note payrolls, taxes, all of that hits us just like it does the rest of you, so 2M sales means we do as well as most well paid janitors at the local school district. In fact, they do a tad better considering the benefits package.

I should become a janitor, but the truth is I LIKE to try and help people, maybe even save them money, it's rewarding.

There is no substitute for making someone pleased with their purchase.

Which is OK, and enough, we are doing fine. But like all the rest of you good folks, we count dollars too.

I still have to say the bid the gentleman mentioned was not out of line.

Remember to get a bid, if you don''t like the price, ask around. Sometimes but not always, the part in the box is exactly the same between suppliers, so logic says we all check on that, too. If the price is WAY too cheap, get suspicious. Note the average dealership MUST work on 300%, a simple fact of life. Interest and all those cars on the lot are financed costs.

Sometimes the tech is hungry, and will offer a deal.

Nothing wrong with that, and it doesn't hurt to ask.

I just look around, and I see the industry I have spent a lifetime in being left behind. Yes, modern vehicles are complicated, much more so than the Doctor you will pay a far higher price to heal your body.

Just some thoughts, I have been in this business for 45 years. I can't complain too much, having done well.

To close, I say that the cost to repair your vehicle may sound high, just think in terms of dollars per mile instead...It might come out to be cheap.....*EB

Hey, the Navy base auto repair shop in Key West charged $2 to use the valve grinding machine, as long as you wanted it. 1967.

Anyway, being in the business, maybe you have seen my quest to find a reasonable solution for getting out of the crossover pipe on a 93 3.0 T. I see big buck Thorley and Downey stuff but have very deep pockets and short stubby fingers. Any suggestions?

>>>*I remember doing the exhaust system on my own 4X4, took her down the street to the muffler shop and they made me one right on the spot.

I don't really know of a cheap way out, though...*EB