I'm always impressed with your retorts snowtoy. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
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I will never think Bushs reputation is worth almost four thousand American lives. F-ing! Thats dictator mentality and it has to stop. So now we are there to protect our masters legacy. Thats not even F-ing funny. Soldiers die for there country NOT ther president.
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You misunderstood what I stated. You said Bush had nothing to lose by invading Iraq and everything to gain financially. I pointed out that his legacy as President is what he was risking by invading Iraq. You want to believe that it was all about money because that is what it appears to be today w/Haliburton, when in reality you have no evidence showing that WMD's weren't the real reason in the beginning. No one not even France spoke up to say that WMD's weren't in Iraq, everyone was under the impression that Sadam had them at his disposal, and WMD casing and residual chemical were actually found. The believed arsenal wasn't found but that doesn't mean they weren't in existance, Sadam had plenty of time to move them out of the country or simply burry them in the desert
I actually know Sadaam had OUR chemical weapons but this administration said Sadaam supports Al Queada and is building a nuclear bomb or close to building one. The WMDs in question were supposed to be nukes not some old canisters of nerve agent. Again this administration changed the definition of WMD midaway through the war like I would not notice. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
It is about money Snowtoy C'mon! On the level ou have to know that. Between you and me, I'd almost be alright with it if they would just do it for us. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />
I pretty much agree with your history lesson but mine was from the enemies point of view. I firmly believe that you have to TRY to understand why they are so volatile to understand how to defeat them. Most of these "terrorist groups" were political parties at one time and most of them have explained their mission plainly. They want us out for arming Israel. Israel has occupied land that was not agreed upon back in 47. They have occupied it with robust force I might add.
One thing I keep in my mind no matter what buzzwords are being thrown around is these are people we are dealing with. People tend to fight back when occupied against their will. People remember seeing made in USA on the ejected casings of the rounds that killed their kids. They remember. Only we seam to forget and that could be our downfall.
In every war there are always profiteers, even the Civil War and WWII. Americans both those who own businesses and those who work for them have profited from war.
I know Haliburton is making money(though I don't remember a lot of companies even wanting to bid the job), and the private contractors as well as U.S.civilians no working in Iraq are also making 2-3 times the income they made here doing the same job over there. So yes a lot of people are making money from the war against terrorism, but I don't think we invaded Iraq for profit. The access to Iraqi oil isn't a high enough return on the investment.
I would have to disagree with you on the Iraq had no threat of real WMD's issue. Did we know that Sadam didn't have access to chemical weapons, no we knew he had them and used them in the past, logoic would dictate that he would still have them available. The one thing we didn't know is where they were, and still don't. We do know that Sadam was seeking the material to make nukes, all of our enemies are, especially those in the ME. They aren't seeking nikes so they can build an ICBM and reach America, they want nukes to be able to threaten their neighbors and forve the U.S. and the rest of the West into maling economic concessions just as NK has done. They understand that the West has lost its collective nerve to fight for anything that might result in them not being liked or bloodshed. The last round of economic concessions by the west to NK proved that, this is why Iran wont back down. Had we given NK the nukes they are after, Ahmadinejad would be complying with the UN and the West, and the newly elected Pres. of France would not be considering war w/Iran as a possibility.
Sadam pushed the hand of the UN by not complying with UN sanctions over and over again, all he had to do was allow the UN inspectors unfettered access as he was required to and he would still be in power.
I do understand the principle of looking at history from both sides of the story to understand where you enemy is coming from, however the losers side of any conflict is always shaded by their holding a grudge. There are people in England, Mexico, Japan, Germany, Russia, and even members of our Southern states still hold a grudge and resent losing the fight with the Colonies or the U.S.(or within). We can spend all of the time we want trying to understand why certain groups hate the U.S., but it wont help us solve the problem. We can't stop supporting Isreal, some European nations have pulled back a little on their support, but if push came to shove they would support Isreal again. People think that if we stop buying the ME oil their hatred of us will go away, not at all. As soon as we stop buying their oil, their economies will dry up, only furthering their resentment for the West, nd they will continue to breed terrorists. The only solution for peace in Me, for solving the issues brought on by Colonialism and the creating the state of Isreal is through them becoming real democracies. Simply holding an election or putting "Democratic............" in front of a nations name doesn't make them a democracy. Regardless of why you think we got involved, whether it be WMD's, liberating the Iraqi people from a brutal dictator, establish a real democratic gov. in a muslim nation, or purely for money, we have the chance to actual cause a paradigm change in ME culture. A chgange that will bring peace to the region, not just with the West but with each other.
We are also not an occupying force in Iraq, if we were we wouldn't be going house to house fighting insurgents, we would sin0ply level an entire city block, portion of teh city, or the entire city. We aren't fighting the Iraqi people that much anymore, in several areas the Iraqi born insurgents are fighting along side coalition troops to rid Iraq of Al Queda. They have realized that their only hope for peace lies with the U.S. and the new gov. of Iraq., and not Al Queda. We have started turning the corner on Iraq, we have to give it more time, and unfortunately that means putting our soldiers in harms way. As I have said before we as a nation have moved all in in Iraq whether we want to be or not.
People tend to fight back when occupied against their will. People remember seeing made in USA on the ejected casings of the rounds that killed their kids.
What better way of making ammends of this history then giving them the very thing the West takes for granted, real democracy and real freedom.