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Engine Surging
#865781
02/01/08 07:12 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 27
OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
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I have been experiencing a strange problem for a while now. Under perfectly normal driving conditions, my engine surges. The best way I can think of to describe this is like an oversized AC pump is being turned on and sapping power. It almost feels like a cylinder isn't firing. I adjusted my valves and my timing to exactly what the factory manual suggests, and the problem got pretty bad, meaning that I lacked power pretty much all the time. I advanced the timing through a couple of settings, and eventually (as expected) it started to ping, so i'm back to the factory settings now. My lights were also surging, so I replaced my alternator because it has an integrated voltage regulator and it solved the light problem. I replaced my spark plugs at the same time, and a couple of them looked really fowled and messed up. Also, the engine has trouble idling steadily through an interval of about 2 min after startup until about 4 min after startup (hope that makes sense). By the way, it's an '88 4ZE1 which I rebuilt. OK! sorry for the excruciatingly long post, but I hope some of you have some insight as to why this engine is running so crappy. Thanks!
1988 Trooper II in the works.
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Re: Engine Surging
[Re: AndyR]
#865782
02/01/08 07:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14
Need a Spot
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have you checked your vacume lines? i had that problem with my truck replaced ALL the vacume lines and it was fixed well i replaced the distributor cap and plug wires at the same time so not sure which fixed it
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Re: Engine Surging
[Re: codysin]
#865783
02/01/08 08:08 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 27
OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
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Ya, I replaced all my vacuum lines when I re-built the engine. Also, to double check, I sprayed carb cleaner in the engine bay lightly around the vacumm lines, and it didn't affect the idle at all. This was a suggestion from a mechanic who is a friend.
1988 Trooper II in the works.
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Re: Engine Surging
[Re: AndyR]
#865784
02/01/08 08:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 14
Need a Spot
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maybe a line came lose other then that cant help ya man
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Re: Engine Surging
[Re: AndyR]
#865785
02/01/08 05:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 281
Mudrunner
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The throttle position switch (square thingy opposite the throttle cam) can induce surging if it was moved from the factory set point. This helped me:
"Here it is. The prongs on the switch are labeled top to bottom, I, P and F. With the throttle closed, you should have no continuity between P-F and continuity between I-P. Slightly depressed gives no continuity between both of those sets of prongs and with it fully depressed (WOT), you should have continuity between P-F, but not I-P. To adjust the switch, hook up the Ohm meter to I-P and place a 0.012 feeler gauge between the throttle stop and the throttle lever. Adjust the gauge until the point where the continuity is just established. Then use a 0.020 feeler gauge to make sure continuity is broken. At that point, it is adjusted. Good Luck, Michael "
Make sure the vacuum connections under the intake manifold haven't slipped off and that they are connected to the right points. That big tube for the air regulator can get a hole worn into it were it passes down through the intake manifold Check the underside of the tube that goes from the air filter to the throttle body too.
Cold start problems could point to the air regulator or the ECM temperature sensor (threaded into the underside of the intake manifold toward the front of the engine; not to be confused with the temperature gauge for your dashboard). They work together on a cold start to increase the idle, kind of like a reverse choke. The temp sensor in the intake manifold tells the ECM to adjust the fuel flow of the injectors to run rich on a cold start. To keep it smooth the air regulator (under the intake, mounted to the engine wall)bypasses the throttle plate and runs extra air into the throttle chamber. If either of these is not right the cylinders will be either flooded or starved for air,
To Check Sensor: : There are two connectors on a bracket just behind the battery. The larger of these two has the 2 wires from the temp sensor in it. They are BLACK and GREEN w)YELLOW stripe on my 88 truck. The way the connectors are mounted these two wires are right on the top of the connector. Simply unplug the connector and put your ohmmeter across those two pins. Reading should be:
degrees F / K ohms 14 / 7-12 50 / 3-5 68 / 2-3 122 / 0.7-1 176 / 0.2-0.4
To check air regulator: Pull large tube off firewall side of throttle body. Cork both openings and start up. Pull the cork on the tube and quickly pull put your thumb over the tube. You should feel a strong vacuum. If you don't the regulator is stuck closed. If you do feel vacuum, it should diminish after a couple of minutes. If it doesn't diminish it's stuck open or no power is getting to the plug. Make sure your grounds are good esp. to the intake manifold. No ground=No signal.
I know that with hustling to get an engine back together, occasional shortcuts come back to bite the weekend mechanic (like me)so I've come to appreciate a little more time spent assembling avoids aggravation later. If you have fouled plugs on a recent rebuild that's not right. Do a compression check. If the bolt holes on the block had muck in the bottom of them it could be that the torque values you had when bolting down the head weren't accurate and the head gasket is passing a bit. Could also be a bad injector or the valve adjustment is off. It doesn't take many miles to burn a loose or tight valve so make sure they are adjusted cold.
I cooked my head by not filling with coolant properly. The head and the intake manifold have galleries that can trap air if it's not vented. One way is to park on a slope engine on the upside, pull the radiator cap (cold engine; don't want a face full of hot coolant) and let the engine reach operating temp. When the thermostat opens it should burp the air out the radiator so just top up with coolant.
I prefer the direct approach, unscrewing the air by-pass valve out of the top of the thermostat housing (again cold engine)and filling the radiator until coolant comes out the hole. Or do both! I'm just tellin' ya, parts of the aluminum head will melt if there's air trapped in it and the temp sensor in the intake manifold will give a false reading if it's not submerged in coolant... plus your water pump can't pump through air... it's all bad. Make sure it's full. Hope this helps. Makes me miss my p'up.
'89 P'up, 2.6 I-Tec, 488,000 miles and done... gone to the great beyond
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Re: Engine Surging
[Re: RT1]
#865786
02/02/08 06:37 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 27
OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
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Thanks RT, that was a really good explanation of everything. I will definitely try all of it and hopefully I can let you all know if it works.
1988 Trooper II in the works.
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Re: Engine Surging
[Re: RT1]
#865787
02/02/08 11:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 27
OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
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RT, when I put a .012 feeler gauge between the stop and the throtle lever, I get no continuity btw I and P. After this you said to adjust the "gauge" until continuity is just established. Now by this do you mean adjust the feeler gauge? Because that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. What I think you meant is "adjust the throttle position sensor until continuity is just reached." My question would be, how do I do that? Is it just a matter of loosening it and turning it...? Odly, my factory shop manual hasn't done me much good.
1988 Trooper II in the works.
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Re: Engine Surging
[Re: AndyR]
#865788
02/08/08 09:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 281
Mudrunner
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Late response: yes adjust the TPS. There's a phillips head screw on the lower end that locks it in place so loosen the screw, adjust then tighten and re-check. You need some patience and a long, side angle screw driver cause there's barely any finger room. I used a phillips bit jambed into a 1/4" box wrench with a bit of aluminum foil to keep it in place. If you have an excuse to pull the throttle body for cleaning it's real easy to calibrate it on the bench
'89 P'up, 2.6 I-Tec, 488,000 miles and done... gone to the great beyond
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Re: Engine Surging
[Re: RT1]
#865789
02/10/08 08:20 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 27
OP
Getting the Wheeling Fever
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Thanks RT. I adjusted the position sensor, and it didn't make any noticable difference, but as another useful diagnostic fact: it recently got pretty warm here (around 60 degrees. It was around 35 all day before) and the engine seems to run much better when its warm outside. This seems totally counter-intuitive to me. The car shouldn't care what the outside temp is...should it?
1988 Trooper II in the works.
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Re: Engine Surging
[Re: AndyR]
#865790
02/12/08 06:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 281
Mudrunner
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Actually it does make some sense. The engine doesn't care but the sensors which adjust the air/fuel ratio to compensate for the cold do. What was the result of the engine temp sensor test? Or other tests?
'89 P'up, 2.6 I-Tec, 488,000 miles and done... gone to the great beyond
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