>>>*Here where we are the local company also expects to be paid to hook up. Plus government permits and inspectors, math calculations by "engineers". IF they agree, then maybe a permit...for a fee, of course.

I am surprised they don't want an environmental impact statement.....*Hmmmm...*Bet they just might, I never got that far.

*Sure as he** there will be some spotted nose one eyed snail down there or something..

Then use of the water, the State says they own the water and all we have are existing rights so we need to go to the watermaster. Existing use is no problem, we have that. The rest goes down the creek, that belongs to the State according to them.

But we are on a danged Island!

They sure don't try to make it easy, that's for sure.

There is no revenue for government in anyone doing it themselves so they created some. All that popped up at every turn trying to put in a good size system, and I haven't as yet done anything but the drawings and math and some phone calls.

*Irritating...But I got this plan I learned from the government..

*Don't ask, don't tell....*LOL**.....*EB

Exactly. Around here more out buildings go up over the weekend then during the week. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Here in CA the power co's are supposed to pay you for the energy you produce, but they don't, they give you a credit, no actual currency exchanges hand. A guy down in the valley has a few windmills, and his credit w/PG&E now stands at just under $10k.

>>>*I believe from now having read up on the laws that I see the reason. The power company is required by law to purchase excess power.

But the Power company is a franchise and it is owned in most cases privately, although there are some "Public PUD's" that are really nothing more than another way of being private as "Public Owned" just gives voting rights, same as any other corporation.

If enough people started setting up their own systems, that cuts into revenues, so by giving credits the law is complied with, competition stifled at the same time.

The fun things to look for are the environmental tax credits, plus in Oregon there are actually some grants available. Bet other States have those, too.

Under Federal law, tax credits can be bought and sold like a used car, major corporations like Combustion Engineering actually survive by working those deals.

One I know about since I chaired the committee that fought an incinerator project they planned for our County.

That one was a crazy idea, and we won in the end. But they put up quite a fight, since the facility was a 100 million dollar capital construction project. *Co-generation mass waste incinerator, we found the flaws.

Under the surface was the 350 million dollar tax credit nobody involved wanted to talk about, at least not in public. I ended up giving speechs on TV over that one..

*Let's just say some of those folks didn't like me much... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Public meetings normally draw 1-3 people or less, we were showing up with 600. Then one day at a big meeting they looked up and here came...Greenpeace?

Heehee. TV everywhere.

(I have NO idea how that happened.... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/evil.gif" alt="" /> )

So building a tiny electical generation system isn't going to get noticed much, still the system is set up to make that tough to do. No prob doing a tiny one, since no big profit or save money/make money. Build a big one, say enough to start reversing a household meter and government starts getting nervous.

Right now a 12V household system really isn't regulated. But if a few hundred, or a few thousand of them pop up, watch how fast government deals with that, too.

Government has zero incentive for anything but a revenue stream.

We just happen to have hydropower as possible, not many folks do. Wind power is possible for some, also. But I say look up!

Nearly everyone could use solar...*EB

Yes, very true, but an electrical system also pays off too.

I'm considering a 48VDC system in the house. I'm going with 48VDC because I can get stuff made for telcoms that will run off of 48VDC. Even including air conditioning systems and power supplies for computers. Inverters made for 48VDC battery banks are more efficient than ones made for 12VDC.

As for batteries, either buy large flooded NiCd or flodded NiMH, lead-acid for fork lifts, Telcom lead-acid or NiCd batteries. Deep cycle batteries made for solar, golf carts, tolling, and AGM style are all short lived in comparison, 300 to 600 80% Depth Of Discharge (DOD)cycles. A good fork lift battery will come with a 7 year warranty and be expected to handle 1800+ 80% DOD cycles if properly maintained. The automotive Saft NiMH and NiCd batteries will do 3000+ 80% DOD cycles if properly maintained. The nice thing about forklift batteries is they are made out of fully contained cells so replacing a dead cell is easy. The bad thing is a 500AH cell still weighs allot. I don't know much about telcom batteries except it isn't unusual to see 20 year warranties. Also 400+lbs single 2V cell weights are not unusual. On the other hand they aren't designed for daily cycling.

Another thing on batteries: The lower the percentage of the full capacity you draw from it before recharging, the longer it will last. Lets say you figure you need to draw 80AH/day a day and you want 3 days reserve capacity. The minimum battery you should buy is 300AH. That would give you 80% DOD after three days of no recharging. Now if you bought a 600AH battery, you would only draw it down 40% rather than 80%. Given what I remember this will likely give you around 2.5 times the life expectancy. You also now have 6 days reserve.

Hee hee. I know where there's an already built small hydro plant for sale by a major utility. It lives at the foot of a 500' drop in a 20'x20' concrete block building with an old style soldered standing seam 250yr metal roof. As long as they don't have to maintain it, the utility will buy power all day long at their average cost of generation. The only wear part in the gizmo is the generator bearings and brushes, and it only runs at like 360rpms...

http://www.otherpower.com/mattsblades.html

Had to dig it up out of my archives. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />