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The geologic perspective (for anyone who cares) #883874 05/02/08 08:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 479
bloodbath4runner Offline OP
Mudrunner
Here is a summary of what the geologic record tells us about abrupt climate change. This has nothing to do with global warming, but much of this information gets haphazardly and incorrectly tossed about in the global warming debate by both critics and proponents.

The existence of these rapid changes in not controversial
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/abrupt/index.html

Of course some of you will find this one controversial because of the ice core link to temperature and greenhouse gasses over the past several hundred thousand years.
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/globalwarming/index.html


You know you're in for a rough night at sea when the barometer does this:
Re: The geologic perspective (for anyone who cares) [Re: bloodbath4runner] #883875 05/02/08 11:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 6,896
sparkem Offline
Trail Leader
***
Quote
At this point, we know that abrupt climate change is a reality. It has happened before and will happen again. How and why it happened in the past are still open questions, as are how, why, and when it might happen in the future. The information found in natural archives of climate and environmental change such as ice cores, lake and ocean sediments, tree rings, and other proxies can be of profound benefit to society in understanding and predicting future climate change.

The goal of the World Data Center for Paleoclimatology is to provide easy access to high quality scientific information derived from rigorous studies of past climate changes. We believe, as do most climate scientists, that the topic of abrupt climate change is worthy of further study, and needs more information before predictions can be made about future events. Several national and international initiatives, such as the U.S. Climate Change Science Plan, have targeted this topic as a priority for scientific research.


<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

Now can I go back to driving my SUV?


I just want to tell you both good luck, and we're all counting on you.
Re: The geologic perspective (for anyone who cares) [Re: sparkem] #883876 05/03/08 02:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,935
bkg Offline
Roll Me Over
Al Gore invented paleontology.


Brian K. Gallus
I have nothing important to say.
Re: The geologic perspective (for anyone who cares) [Re: sparkem] #883877 05/03/08 03:54 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 479
bloodbath4runner Offline OP
Mudrunner
Quote
Quote
At this point, we know that abrupt climate change is a reality. It has happened before and will happen again. How and why it happened in the past are still open questions, as are how, why, and when it might happen in the future. The information found in natural archives of climate and environmental change such as ice cores, lake and ocean sediments, tree rings, and other proxies can be of profound benefit to society in understanding and predicting future climate change.

The goal of the World Data Center for Paleoclimatology is to provide easy access to high quality scientific information derived from rigorous studies of past climate changes. We believe, as do most climate scientists, that the topic of abrupt climate change is worthy of further study, and needs more information before predictions can be made about future events. Several national and international initiatives, such as the U.S. Climate Change Science Plan, have targeted this topic as a priority for scientific research.


<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

Now can I go back to driving my SUV?


The question is what, if anything, is different between today's conditions and those of these particular intervals of the geologic past. Can we determine what caused previous changes and are those same forces at work today? Or, is something different?


You know you're in for a rough night at sea when the barometer does this:
Re: The geologic perspective (for anyone who cares) [Re: bloodbath4runner] #883878 05/03/08 02:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 3,935
bkg Offline
Roll Me Over
Quote

The question is what, if anything, is different between today's conditions and those of these particular intervals of the geologic past. Can we determine what caused previous changes and are those same forces at work today? Or, is something different?


Interesting question, but I would also add that we need to ask: does it matter?

Here's why... if we determine that the dinosaurs were killed off due to heat (always taught that in school) and we determine what caused that warming trend, our politicians are going to tax the crap out of us in an effort to change the global climate to prevent it from happening again (which we all know is a false hope).

Look at sun activity; direct correlation to warming and cooling here and other planets/moons. Yet we can't fix that, so we're not willing to accept it as a cause.


Brian K. Gallus
I have nothing important to say.
Re: The geologic perspective (for anyone who cares) [Re: bkg] #883879 05/03/08 03:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 479
bloodbath4runner Offline OP
Mudrunner
Quote
Quote

The question is what, if anything, is different between today's conditions and those of these particular intervals of the geologic past. Can we determine what caused previous changes and are those same forces at work today? Or, is something different?


Interesting question, but I would also add that we need to ask: does it matter?

Here's why... if we determine that the dinosaurs were killed off due to heat (always taught that in school) and we determine what caused that warming trend, our politicians are going to tax the crap out of us in an effort to change the global climate to prevent it from happening again (which we all know is a false hope).

Look at sun activity; direct correlation to warming and cooling here and other planets/moons. Yet we can't fix that, so we're not willing to accept it as a cause.


I understand people's concerns with politicians. War on drugs? Go after the end users - treat the symptoms not the cause. In our NC drought, we get all these tips from the government on things we can buy to save water but no financial incentives. What's wrong with a rebate for buying that new low-volume toilet or whatnot. Instead, they just intend to raise rates for high users - those poor souls like my friend with a wife and two teenage daughters. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

Variations in the sun is a good example of the need to determine if conditions differ. We've documented changes in the solar constant at 11, 88 and 210 years. But AFAIK, we don't see evidence of large amplitude temperature change that is coherent with solar output at these frequencies. Extending the record of solar output change beyond when people started staring at the sun with telescopes (~ 1600 I think) relies on geologic records of the radiogenic isotopes C-14, Be-10, and Cl-36. These are formed due to cosmic rays hitting the earth. Problem is the production of these isotopes is modulated in the same fashion by both the solar magnetic field and the earth's magnetic field; teasing apart the effects of each to determine just the solar contribution is very difficult.

Remember the asteroid disaster movies? It appears that a large one hit the Yucatan area 65 million years ago and killed off many things. Was like a nuclear winter. Iridium is rare on the earth but common in many of the meteorites we've collected. Sedimentary deposits world wide from that time have a relative spike in iridium. This is a really cool sediment core through that layer.

http://www.usssp-iodp.org/PDFs/Greatest_Hits/Brochure/Norris.pdf


You know you're in for a rough night at sea when the barometer does this:

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