While I firmly believe in one's right to protest, when will the opposition figure out that protesting in this way gets nowhere in this type of situation.

Protesting and civil disobedience has its place, when you are fighting an oppressive government, with at least significant, if not overwhelming, public support. This is not about an oppressive government. Its about convincing Americans to convince their government to change a foreign policy. The majority of Americans already do not support the war. Now you have to convince them to get active about it, with their representatives.

Every wacko left wing war protester has only succeeded in prolonging the war they seek to end, by turning the public off to their cause. I don't necessariliy support the war, but I'll be damned if I'm going to stand by and walk toe to toe with some mindless hippie, who hates this country and republicans our government...just because its the cool thing to do these days.

If they truly believed in their cause and were not just out for self glorification and anarchy as so many mindless protesters are, then they should be peacefully educating people through seeking to give media interviews, writing books, magazines and other media about their accounts and experiences and opinions. That is the only way they have a chance. Iraq war veterans could be a powerful message to people who are otherwise completely closed minded in their support of the war. But this is total strategic misuse of that message.

I don't agree with what the cops said and I do agree that it was wrong they should be dissiciplined for their unprofessionalism in their statements. Our rights are absolute. But what law or right was violated here? That we don't know. Because we weren't there and we don't know the whole situation. If someone is standing where they are not allowed..private or public property, they can be removed. There's no right to says you can be anywhere you want to be. If there is, then you won't mind me standing in your kitchen raiding your refrigerator.

Now, before anyone tries to say we live in a totalitarian society, they ought to go visit one first. American makes even Europe and Canada look like the Soviet Union. Yes, we are losing some of our rights due to fear and change of laws and there are both scared and evil cops that are acting outside the bounds of law, but there are provisions in place to fight against that. Cops can be sued for violation of civil rights. And are all the time. Billions in tax dollars are paid out in damages every year.

I know the tin foil hat movement is gravitating towards a very anti-police message, where the cops are the enemy...part of the global conspiracy movement. In the 1990s, it was the jack booted thugs and Janet Reno that was the enemy along with the black UN helicopters. Now it's the local cops. That's a huge mistake.

Cops in this country are anything but centric in their control, unlike most other countries. Rather than believing there is some central conspiracy to get all of our cops together and just start shooting and tazing people for no reason, it would be better to understand how police actually work in America and why they do the things they do.

America is an extremely violent country. And if any of you walked in a cops shoes, you'd be absolutely shocked at what cops have to see and do on a daily basis. Most of it hidden from public view. You would understand their actions more and what they have to put up with just to survive, while being restrained by more rights, laws and criminals protections than any other country affords, bar none.

We live in a unique society, where we have absolute rights, but humanity is absolutely evil and will take advantage of the rights we afford to the farthest degree they can. In the time of the founders, the society was strong in it's moral values and there was things that need not be addressed in the constitution and our rights. We live in a time where society has no moral values anymore and our rights have been expanded far beyond the founder's vision. To some degree, I fully agree with the expansion of those rights.

But we must always recognized the impossible position that we put our police in, in defending our security, while hampered by our absolute rights. And just thank God you aren't in that position.

I stand by my original point that you will never hear about Iraqi veterans being smashed by police horses or arrested for making a statement against the war on the MSM news - ever.

"Just start cuffin them up" - to not do so would be bad PR for the duopoly. Nothing new - look up the Bonus Army.

I've got nothing against anyone doing their job. But the mentality that certain paid vocations deserve the benefit of the doubt because we could never appreciate what they do is only heralding in the stasi in this case. Policing is a job - uphold and enforce the law. The negatives are compensated for and if they aren't agreeable one can find another vocation.

I've never heard one tin foiler ever state or write that there is some centrist conspiracy behind the increasing trend of police brutality and abuse of position. There certainly is an increasing morality split that trends toward nihilism and that trend applies to those wearing a badge as well. There is definitely increasing corporatism affecting these issues, and Posse Comitatus is now over.

So to NOT bring attention and condemnation and punishment for abuses of power is a huge mistake.

trampling vid @ 4:30

I dont share that ideal. The service speaks not the hair. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Tell this guy how his hair pisses you off. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />


<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

I know several former Delta Force dudes who look a lot like him. Their 'toothpicks' will give you a nice clean shave too.

No, not a problem with that dude. He wasn't wearing his full Class A uniform. If you're gonna wear the uniform, wear it right. An old field jacket is a different matter...go ahead and sport your goofy ass hairdo and 'stach. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So a retired Vet with long hair could'nt wear his class As? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I've known many old vets that have long hair and beards and I thought they could still wear class As if they wished. Is it an insult or something?

I know my dad never appreciated long hair. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

Do you really despise tha "natural" look? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rodent.gif" alt="" /> I'm not busting your chops Stony just trying to think of a senario where it would be ok. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

Yes he could wear it, but he would not be to military code. If he were on active duty, what do you think would happen with that long hair?

He/they are degrading the uniform of our enlisted men and woman.

As a vet I think they are wrong. Some of the worlds people might/would think that our military is protesting.

Grass said it nicely.

Probably did like I did with mine after I got out and set his gear on fire. I do not know ONE Vietnam vet with class A's in their closet, and we have a LOT of them up here.

Colin Powell: ôThereÆs going to be ...nÆt even know about right now.ö (@2:45)

Biden: "Remember I said it sta..., to test the mettle of this guy."

By all means MSM - don't bother to ask WTF that's supposed to mean.