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 Re: The eons old modus operandi
[Re: FrankR]
#909621
12/22/08 02:39 AM
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,634
OP
Roll Me Over
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1) What is it if not Flight 77 and if it wasn't Flight 77, then where is it?
2) Where are those people? Where are the tapes? If there's nothing to hide - why not see the tapes? I'll repeat: Frank likes to hide behind the false premise that: If a 757 didn't hit the pentagon, then I should somehow omnisciently know what did and what happened to the passengers of 77 (I would assume they are dead as I've already stated). Beyond the obvious absurdity of such a claim, it reveals the predisposition to dismissing any evidence to the contrary that a 757 could not have hit the Pentagon.
concreteprinter.com
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Re: The eons old modus operandi
[Re: bretwalda]
#909622
12/22/08 02:59 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,238
Web Wheeler
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Since you're still doing the jitterbug, let's try this: Here are the words of two eye witnesses among many who saw Flight 77 hit the Pentagon: Afework Hagos, a computer programmer, was on his way to work but stuck in a traffic jam near the Pentagon when the plane flew over. "There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. Everybody was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in."
A pilot who saw the impact, Tim Timmerman, said it had been an American Airways 757. "It added power on its way in," he said. "The nose hit, and the wings came forward and it went up in a fireball."
And then, there are all of the 757 parts found at the scene: A Boeing 757 Struck the Pentagon Finally, we have a soldier conducting recovery operations who describes the discovery of Flight 77 passengers still strapped in their seats: When Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped into their seats. The stench of charred flesh overwhelmed him.
"It was the worst thing you can imagine," said Williams, whose squad from Fort Belvoir, Va., entered the building, less than four hours after the terrorist attack. "I wanted to cry from the minute I walked in. But I have soldiers under me and I had to put my feelings aside."
So, in summary - we have: 1) Eyewitnesses who said the plane hit the Pentagon. 2) 757 parts all over the crash scene. 3) Dead and burned passengers still strapped in their seats found by an extraction team inside the Pentagon. Are you still going to try to tell us that Flight 77 did not crash into the Pentagon? Frank
'89 [color:"white"]G-Raider[color:"white"] [color:"black"]Supercharged 3.0L, MegaSquirt 2, lockup A/T, 2.5" exhaust, 172k, Cibie H4s/Oscar SCs, Hella Micro DE fogs, Cobra CB, Superwinch hubs, LSD rear/Aussie Locker front, Bilsteins, Lifeline AGM, Rust-Oleum
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Re: The eons old modus operandi
[Re: FrankR]
#909623
12/22/08 03:07 AM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,892
Web Wheeler
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Regardless of which side of the argument I fall, I would like to tell you both I enjoy reading these posts. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Re: The eons old modus operandi
[Re: stony-man]
#909624
12/22/08 03:31 AM
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 8,557
Forum Moderator
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87 Raider 4D56td v5MT1
31's..Basically Stock
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Re: The eons old modus operandi
[Re: LandRaider]
#909625
12/22/08 04:44 AM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,628
Roll Me Over
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x2! Man, I'm lovin all this banter. But, batsh!t still comes to mind every time I click on this thread....
Fasteddy's advice is occasionally sound...
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Re: The eons old modus operandi
[Re: LandRaider]
#909626
12/22/08 04:58 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,238
Web Wheeler
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Well, if you're enjoying it, let's add a little more factual evidence to the list: After recovery of the remains of the passengers, crew and hijackers from the wreckage of Flight 77 INSIDE THE PENTAGON, the remains were turned over to the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology - based at Walter Reed Army Medical Center - for identification. DNA testing was done mostly at Dover AFB and of the 64 civilians on Flight 77, the remains of all but 5 were identified: Armed Forces Medical Examiners In New York, where the monumental task of identifying the remains of 2,823 victims believed to be dead continues, no remains have been linked to the 10 hijackers who crashed two airliners into the World Trade Center. About half the victims' families still are waiting for their loved ones to be identified, though it's likely many never will be because so much of the site was incinerated.
In contrast, the remains of all 40 victims in the Pennsylvania crash and all but five of the 184 victims at the Pentagon site were identified months ago.
After the remains were identified, some of the personal effects of the dead were returned to their families: "During an interview earlier this week, Koch delicately handled eerie mementos of the crash found during cleanup: Whittington's battered driver's license... a burnt luggage tag and a wedding ring lie on a book dedicated to those lost in the events of Sept. 11, 2001. The wedding ring belonged to Ruth's daughter and the luggage tag belonged to one her granddaughters."
ôSuzanne Calley died aboard American Airlines Flight 77 when terrorists hijacked the plane and sent it crashing into the Pentagon... Rescue crews were able to pull CalleyÆs body from Flight 77Æs wreckage. Jensen [CalleyÆs husband] spent last yearÆs anniversary of the national tragedy in Washington, D.C. There, a Pentagon official - assigned to CalleyÆs family as a liaison - gave Jensen his wifeÆs wedding ring, which had been recovered from the plane.ö My dad, George Simmons, was on the plane because he was accompanying his wife, Diane, to go to her father's funeral in Hawaii. They were going with the ashes, which were to be spread in Kauai...
The FBI contacted us to get DNA samples, so they could identify the victims-they had to take blood from each one of us. It was awful. We're in my dad and Diane's house in Great Falls, having to tell the FBI exactly what they look like, and look for the name of their dentist, and identify in detail what jewelry they may have been wearing, what clothes. They told us to save samples of their hair from their brushes upstairs, and their toothbrushes...
We got his wedding band back. We got his business card with his name on it. We got his day planner, and it was only charred along the outside rim, but it's completely readable, each page. And his address book-it was charred on the outside as well. It was like a leather binder, and every page was readable. They would probably have been in his carry-on bag, which he usually brought, a canvas one, so it was kind of bizarre-it makes you think, did he really suffer through this? How long did he suffer before they passed away, because, if all that is so readable, it's pretty disturbing. The smell of the items was horrible, horrific. It was so overpowering. The FBI sent it wrapped in plastic, and when I opened it in my apartment, my entire apartment smelled like that for a couple days. They found Diane's Visa credit card and her checkbook.
The National Journal, August 31, 2002
So, we've now established: 1) Eyewitnesses who said the plane hit the Pentagon. 2) 757 parts all over the crash scene. 3) Dead and burned passengers still strapped in their seats found by an extraction team inside the Pentagon. 4) All but 5 aboard Flight 77 were identified through DNA testing. 5) Some personal effects of those passengers were found along with their bodies inside the Pentagon and further inside the wreckage of an AA 757 (aka Flight 77).... and returned to the families of the victims. Now - 1) Phil says that Flight 77 didn't crash into the Pentagon, but doesn't know what did. 2) He agrees the passengers are probably dead, but he doesn't know how they died and has no alternative scenario. 3) He agrees there might have been an AA in the area doing... what - a flyover? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.... but doesn't know what happened next. 4) He doesn't know where Flight 77 might have otherwise landed. 5) He damned sure doesn't know how the Flight 77 passengers could have been extracted from inside the Pentagon unless the plane crashed into the Pentagon. In other words...... Phil don't know jack. Frank <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
'89 [color:"white"]G-Raider[color:"white"] [color:"black"]Supercharged 3.0L, MegaSquirt 2, lockup A/T, 2.5" exhaust, 172k, Cibie H4s/Oscar SCs, Hella Micro DE fogs, Cobra CB, Superwinch hubs, LSD rear/Aussie Locker front, Bilsteins, Lifeline AGM, Rust-Oleum
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Re: The eons old modus operandi
[Re: FrankR]
#909627
12/22/08 06:52 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,649
Roll Me Over
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In other words...... Phil don't know jack. He's not alone, after reading some of the post on the above site you posted, he has a few in his camp, but not many. I wonder why? Frank, don't post anymore of those site, I just wasted hours reading that mess. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by Grasscat; 12/22/08 06:55 AM.
Michael j
TreadLightly! Trainer
Grasscat III, 1994 Gen 2 Five speed, Stock ( for a little while )
GrassCat II, 1998 Gen 2.5 Locked and loaded. Ran off with Hector.
GrassCat I, 1991 Gen 1 Ran off with Justice.
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Re: The eons old modus operandi
[Re: FrankR]
#909628
12/22/08 09:08 PM
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,634
OP
Roll Me Over
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Who's the jitterbug? Could you at least answer one question? Why can't we see the tapes?!?! Its a slam dunk Frank, right? Why can't I see them? I'm glad you found the ATS thread - I knew I could count on you to dredge up the now infamous BS post of CatHerder (fitting name eh?). Brings back fond memories of seeing 'all' <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> of the evidence and getting back to baseball and apple pie in the good ol' US of A. Nice to see that thread is still going strong - well kinda. Ya see the owners/admins of ATS have quelled any discussion of CATHERDER, but if you have the time to peruse the 282 pages of that thread, you might begin to find traces of good ol disinfo being outed. Here is the original rebuttal of C...plausible, but certainly not conclusive (Original CatHerder article & pics included with Quinn's rebuttal notes in blue). A lot has happened since then as far as info gathering - mostly by way extensive eyewitness testimony - most of which can be found on thePentcon.com ...no need to go there just yet - we'll be looking at some of their work below. A look into the owners/admins of the ATS board, and some speculation on CatHerder I believe it was sometime after this that someone on ATS did some more CatHerder digging and posted it to the thread. I don't know if its still there. Doubt it - read the above article, or search 'CatHerder' on ATS - negative discussion is censored by admins. On to the cherry picking: The most extensive collection of eyewitness accounts regarding the Pentagon crash.Within this mile long list of 181 accounts, how many witness testimonies does one find claiming to having seen a plane clip the light posts? All 181? 175? 150? How about 100? How about 50? 25? 15? 10? 5? 4? 3? 2?... One. 1/2 of 1% of the witness testimony corroborates (well no, it doesn't 'corroborate' as there is only one testimony) that an AA 757 (presumably) hit the light posts. Now lets think critically for once shall we? The light posts are important because they would at least affirm that the 757 impacted the Pentagon from the direction of which the light posts were downed. Since nearly all of these quotes don't allow us to place the witness at their unique vantage point at the time, and the few that do exclude the possibility of their vantage confirming a precise location of the plane before impact, we have to narrow things down. Lets look at what the Pentacon folk have done. In the video I'm about post Craig makes an important point: "Its the general details that get corraborated, that we know are the true ones...the more simple the claim the more likely it is to be true." So what general detail can be gleaned from eyewitnesses that is specific enough to solicit a conclusion that: A) An AA 757 slammed into the Pentagon from the direction of the downed light poles. Or B) An AA 757 did not slam into the Pentagon from the direction of the downed light poles.? If a 757 presumably slammed into the Pentagon from a clearly different direction - we have a problem with the light pole evidence. If the facts surrounding the light poles contradict the official claim - what other parts of the official account might have problems? Since Frank doesn't review my links I'll put the short version: The CIT people have independently and unanimously corroborated by eyewitnesses closest to the impacted side of the Pentagon (literally across the street) that the jet (whatever it was) could not have downed the light poles. These witnesses were the closest to the craft of any. Some of them actually felt the heat from the engines as it passed over. So the 'simple claim' is this: The presumed 757 believed to have hit the Pentagon flew towards its target from a direction north of the Citgo Gas Station. If this can be verified - the light poles could not have been taken out by the alleged AA 757. ![[Linked Image]](http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/lytetrip/Pentagon/northsouthnew.jpg) Fact: The planes placement North of the Citgo station is verified by ALL of the witness, independently and exhaustively interviewed: Part 1 of the most recent eyewitness interviews. Part 2 Article by interviewers more interviews What nut jobs eh Frank? I mean - our government said it didn't happen that way so of course these crazies are full of wack...and 'lies'. Except now we have a problem with your lying, concealing, government Frank. You see that dam FOIA has done it again, and your incompetent gatekeepers have fallen prey again. Now, according to the FAA - the plane DID fly in north of the Citgo Gas Station, and completely void of hitting any of the downed poles - OOOOOOPS! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Official FAA animation of Flight 77... north of the Citgo, north of the poles.Now what Frank? Care to straighten this all out for us? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> What knocked down those poles? ..which is why, when you post unending lists of quotes from people within the government, and specifically government personnel in recovery of the crime scene <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I just chuckle. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> The government telling me they've recovered remains from a plane that they also claim liquefied and disintegrated on impact as it pierced through its own 16 foot hole following the downing of 5 light poles that it clipped but didn't clip is just a little bit stupid in conjunction with claiming recovery personal exhumed bodies still strapped to the seats. Got one of those seats for us to look at Frank? Can we put a name to this account? How about a coroner's report? Got a body you get a report right? Fact: The responsibility to identify and autopsy each of the decedents [of all three crime scenes] fell to the Office of the Armed Forces Medical Examiner, part of the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, headquartered in Washington, DC. Now once again you conclude with the trusty character assasination of 'Phil don't know jack.' I'm gonna continue to go easy on you Frank. I'm not even going to get into the other crime scenes - I'll stick with the Pentagon because we really aren't even scratching the surface yet. In fact I'm gonna give you heads up. We're gonna look more closely at some of these witness acounts. We're gonna look at the C-130, and where it was found next in our storyline of that day. So quick - google! google fast! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />
concreteprinter.com
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Re: The eons old modus operandi
[Re: bretwalda]
#909629
12/22/08 10:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,238
Web Wheeler
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You're getting hysterical now. Good. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> Dance on this: 1) How did all those people ride in on a missile? 2) Where did Flight 77 land? When you quit looking at all the BS about what couldn't have happened and look at reality, maybe you'll find peace. But until then, probably not. Merry Christmas! Frank <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />
'89 [color:"white"]G-Raider[color:"white"] [color:"black"]Supercharged 3.0L, MegaSquirt 2, lockup A/T, 2.5" exhaust, 172k, Cibie H4s/Oscar SCs, Hella Micro DE fogs, Cobra CB, Superwinch hubs, LSD rear/Aussie Locker front, Bilsteins, Lifeline AGM, Rust-Oleum
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Re: The eons old modus operandi
[Re: FrankR]
#909630
12/22/08 11:09 PM
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,634
OP
Roll Me Over
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Response duly noted. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> Merry Christmas to you too Frank. Edit: When you quit looking at all the BS about what couldn't have happened What couldn't have happened particularly? What part of a conclusion that criminal elements within the government staged 9-11 as a pretext to war and renunciation of civil liberties could not have happened? Let's see what our government has dreamed up in the past: 8. It is possible to create an incident which will demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civil airliner enroute from the United States to Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela. The destination would be chosen only to cause the flight plan route to cross Cuba. The passengers could be a group of college students off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest to support chartering a non-scheduled flight.
a. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone.
b. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rendezvous south of Florida. From the rendezvous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly into an auxiliary field at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. The drone aircraft meanwhile will continue to fly the filed flight plan. When over Cuba the drone will being transmitting on the international distress frequency a "MAY DAY" message stating he is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by destruction of the aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow ICAO radio stations in the Western Hemisphere to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to "sell" the incident.
~Operation Northwoods or "Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba " Drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, 1962 And I'm the crazy one <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> Downing Street Memo anyone?
concreteprinter.com
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