Good laughs all. So the FDR just 'quits' 2 seconds before impact. That's mighty convenient isn't it. And so now its not a problem of inputing the wrong pressure - these things are just 'plane' useless. Three revs on the dial certainly has to be "considerable room for error"...but we drawn the line at 13 independently interviewed , unanimous witnesses. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Gotcha.



Read your 19 eyewitness. Most of them don't even state their position. Most of don't even say they saw it hit. We don't even have names for some of them. And of course - none of them detail a flight path in way. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/sleeping.gif" alt="" />



Will do. Lets start with the closest - our boy Lloyd. Ya know the one that had one of the light poles go through his cab...that's pretty darn close eh?

Lloyd sets us straight on the facts. Stick to your story Lloyd. You don't want to be suicided over this. Speaking of coincidental suicides - let see what now dead camera man James Ingersoll (committed suicide a few days after handing all of his photos to the CIT guys) shows us from behind the lens on that day:



'Liquify' is not my terminology. It is your apologists terminology in order to explain how a plane with 44ft tall tail strikes a building without leaving so much as a scratch on the windows and surface above the hole. You can't have it both ways. Why is the VOR tower still standing?



<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" /> Thanks Frank. Cuz if we aren't allowed to see the plane - a computer graphic will certainly do <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" /> Hey at least that one has engines <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />



Your not reading all the info I've posted. Investigate what the insiders have said. Look at Able Danger...



And those facts are what? That all data supplied supporting the claim that a dude that couldn't check out in a Cessna flew into the Pentagon is unreliable? That the gatekeepers of the information should be trusted - we don't need to see a plane hitting it? What facts? That the leadership directly falsified documents regarding air quality at ground zero should be trusted nonetheless regarding their 'factual' claims? That the White House went on Cipro 3 days before 9-11? What other facts remain that support the official story? That some of the hijackers were living with FBI informants? That mainstream media was reporting WTC 7 collapsed 20 minutes before it fell at free fall speed into its own footprint? That thermate has been found in the debris of the towers? That there was never an investigation of the WTC evidence - carted off to China in the days and months afterward, some of it saved to build us a warship? That molten pools of metal remained in the basement levels of the WTC for months following the event - even evidenced by NASA infrared imaging? That seismic readings preceding the collapses demonstrate massive detonations?

What other facts remain?

That goofy fellow should be ashamed of himself.... trying to confuse poor ol' Lloyd. And Lloyd's wife is a trip - an expert witness who wasn't at the scene, but becomes a cornerstone of "factual" information "proving" the Truthers case that the entire event was planned. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />



No, the FDR likely worked until impact, but latency in the data being written to the recorder made it appear that it quit 1-2 seconds sooner.



I don't think so....... The government reconstruction was not a real-time view of the instruments - it was a simulation. Do you know whether the altimeter data was derived from the pressure altimeter or the radio altimeter? I don't. Either could have been in error - particularly the radio altimeter in a diving bank and both are likely to show deviation due to electronic latency. Have you checked any other black box data to show what the data read at impact as a result of a diving/banking crash. Was the pressure altimeter correctly calibrated? Was the radio altimeter correctly calibrated?



That means nothing. My son-in-law couldn't check out a Cessna 172 a couple of years ago - even though he had recently accumulated 4000 hours in USN EP3-E model multi-engine surveillance aircraft:


and a few thousand more hours as a flight instructor in a T-34C:


If you haven't been checked out in a plane, you don't get to fly it.... but you know that.



You're reading that from the wrong angle..... since you seem to have all of the "facts" - most all of which are completely irrelevent.



Oh boy........ now you're going into orbit...... put down the crack pipe.

1) Where's the disclaimer from Rolls Royce?

2) Where's the plane?

I'll get back to you when you can answer those 2 questions.

Frank <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/sleeping.gif" alt="" />

Dammit Frank. Now you've made me pee myself...

Latency per the NTSB spec is .5 seconds. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />



I'm sure it was off - by 300 ft <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> ...otherwise we have real problems...well we still do. - Dam that tower!

So your saying your son in law would be incompetent to even fly a Cessna with an instructor in order to check out in the Cessna?







But hey - that means nothing <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

So:

Terminal Approach Radar - no good - refutes the claim.
FDR data - no good - refutes the claim.
Flight path detail by eyewitnesses - no good - refutes the claim.
Lloyd's testimony - <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif" alt="" />

Anonymous accounts of bodies still strapped in the seats - Perfect.
Two sentence testimonies of a plane and an explosion, no statement of the witnesses perspective, flight path, etc - Perfect.
DNA evidence exclusive to government investigators tasked for all 4 event scenes - Perfect.

= proves 9-11 was the work of islamic fundamentalists (who also enjoyed snorting crack, hitting the strip clubs, and lovin up their white American girlfriends)

Why's VOR tower still standing?

Where's the plane?

Those photos are taken from 2 different angles, and that pole in the foreground is quite an obstruction...or it could be that the pole was hit with such speed that it was "thrown", instead of simply just falling where it stood.

And planes of that size smashing into a building and exploding...there are your seismic readings.

This gets funnier and funnier. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> Truthers will probably want to take this one off of their list of "proof" before they go marching up to Capital Hill. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

Look carefully at those 2 pictures - it's not a matter of being taken from 2 different angles - they aren't even taken from the same location. The "EXIT" sign behind the 3 poles appears in one picture, but not the other. Probably just a sleight of hand. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> I wonder what pictures the goofy fellow used to "prove" to poor ol' Lloyd that his cab wasn't where he said it was. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

Phil, you couldn't find the truth with a road map and a huntin' dog.

Where's the statement from Rolls Royce?

Where's the plane?

Frank <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />

I think I see something in the first pic that looks like the pole that is is in the second pic.

It looks like the pic is taken very near to the same location and angle just closer up. But no it is not exact. Close enough for me.

What I see in the first pic is a distortion of some sort. It is near the first visible rail support just to our right of the junction box and on top of the rail.

Yeah. I like how blurry the first pic is but the second one is perfectly focused. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />