Not only is the "EXIT" sign missing, look at the 3 poles to the left and notice that the angle brace connects to the left pole about 2' above the ground in this picture:



But it's only about 1' above the ground in this picture



Maybe the seismic activity caused it, eh? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

No wonder Lloyd's car moved.......... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> These guys are pretty good with photo chop.

They remind me of the Keystone Cops:


Frank

Ok thats it.......

You dont snort crack, you smoke it.



I just thought that was pertinent information for the cause. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

Here's another example of how gullible folks are and how far "Truthers" will go in an attempt to create their own "sleight-of-hand" - they show a hole punched by rescue workers - or by the nose of the plane - or by whatever and ask "How could a plane fly through that hole? There's not even any damage from the tail or wings."


When the hole from another perspective looks like this and it becomes obvious that it's in one of the inner rings of the Pentagon, several hundred feet from the initial crash contact point...


And the initial impact point in the outer wall looks like this:


Now, I have to ask how a freelance graphics designer like Phil could miss all of this Truth? Is he that gullible? Or is he one of the perpetrators of the graphics fraud for anti-government subversion?

Wait.... that would be a conspiracy to accuse the government of a conspiracy. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" />

Maybe these folks just want to join Cynthia McKinney on the 9/11 Truthers Ticket next time and have their sheep send them money for their political use. Yikes! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" />

Frank <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I think they see what they want to see and believe what they have already predetermined in their own mind. Once someone gets so far invested in a belief there is really no convincing them their beliefs are false.

Carlos

The thing is...the plane did not fly through the hole, it crashed, causing the hole. When a dragster crashes at over 200 mph the ONLY reason there is anything recongnizable left is that they are very well reinforced with a steel cage...planes are not reinforced as well as dragsters because of weight issues, and there is a lot more mass to planes...not mention usually more speed as well.

And yeah, I have to say that I think those photos look doctored also.

Yes he was walking down a hill and toward the right as he snapped photos.

Here's a gif I made of the three shots. Big file - 1MB

This is the pole that, according to Lloyd went through his windshield. Very peculiar (as is Lloyds extended interview) physics going on there but regardless... In the first frame you can see his cab perpendicular to the road on the left side. Now if the pole was still sticking out of the windshield it should be there - this is a big pole. Also you will note with the reference marks against the median divider that the first 2 shots were from a higher elevation - as James walked down a hill to the scene - so from this higher angle you'd assume if it was laying in its place seen in the 3rd shot, you would have a better view of it. Time info on the exif data for the images is 9:49 for the first, 9:49 for the 2nd, and 9:52 for the 3rd.

Certainly nothing worth the long diatribes that have ensued here - there's just not enough that can't be determined from the shots - What about Lloyd though...and his wife? Its perfectly acceptable for Frank to scream 'conspiracy!' and claim they've been photoshopped (these photos have been available and used by mainstream news sources and 9-11 sites of both truther and coicidence apologists since 9-11), but seeing any of the 85 confiscated surveillance tapes that should show the plane hitting the building - "They don't have to show you anything." I think its clear from the perspective of the vertical poles that he's moved much closer to the scene, further down the hill, and to the right in the 3rd shot - which is why the perspective of the car (and the missing exit sign <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />) has changed.

#1 exit sign visible
sequence two - exit sign visible behind tree
moving down and to the right - exit sign obscured by trees - not photoshop'd
Now down near street level and shoo...- Sorry Frank - no photoshop conspiracy <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/ignore.gif" alt="" />





No, these are right before the collapses. There's multiple recordings of this from different stationary cameras- here's one clip - @ 25 sec.




BWAHAHHAHAHA!

Well, lets hope your disinfo is merely due to your ongoing selective researching of the facts and not outright falsehood...but I wouldn't put it past you.

There is no Truther that would or has ever claimed your ridiculous and obnoxious point that that is where the plane entered the Pentagon. Just stupid lies. The fact is it was Popular Mechanics that claimed the hole was made by the planes landing gear and independent researchers - through transcripts, interviews and photo research, determined that it was a punch out hole to gain access from the back - as is now generally accepted by all sides.



I see a tower in the flight path - what do you see?

So where are we now?

NTSB data - unacceptable - does not work with official story
FAA radar data - unacceptable - does not work with official story
VDOT tower does not exist???
13 independently interviewed witness, unanimous in flight path direction of travel. - unacceptable - does not work with official story
Anonymous accounts of bodies still strapped in the seats - Perfect.
Two sentence testimonies of a plane and an explosion, no statement of the witnesses perspective, flight path, etc - Perfect.
DNA evidence exclusive to government investigators tasked for all 4 event scenes - Perfect.

"anti-government subversion" - not hardly - that'd be you Frank. You've got good company...and even better coming in 8 more days.

My agenda is pretty dangerous thoug... and those that would veil the evidence.

Where's the tapes? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/patriot.gif" alt="" />

That's real cute, linking to pictures that aren't relevent. Show me the "EXIT" sign in this picture:


That is in this picture:


Since the second picture is taken from a closer range, the "EXIT" sign should be clearly visible in the first picture. Where is it?



Oh yes - the tower.... the one you called a VOR tower here:


But is now a VDOT tower - big difference.

Actually, there is quite a bit of confusion about this - is it the VDOT antenna that is the concern?


Or this mast next to the overhead sign?


Since you said that you could see a tower in the path, I assume you meant the mast - which appears to have been struck by a wingtip - maybe, maybe not.

If you meant the VDOT antenna tower, then that's a different thing.

Here's a discussion regarding the VDOT tower and whether it was possible to fly the airplane into the Pentagon, yet not hit the VDOT tower. If you want to do the math for yourself, be prepared to determine a parabolic flight path from the FDR that has a lag due to latency - and then calculate the airborne position of the aircraft's parabolic path (including any banking maneuver) over an exact geographic track using the FDR info (with latency). You'll also need to calculate generated G-Force and determine if the aircraft could have remained assembled and if the pilot could have remained concious. The calculations are quite complex without accurate data, but if you want to find the answer, you need to read this and see for yourself:

web page

Where is that statement from Rolls Royce?
Where is the plane?
Who photochopped the pictures?

Frank

Dang - So your really believe these photos were photoshop'd?

Brilliant <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" /> Look at the links again Frank - try to figure it out. Otherwise you might want to put the word out to your apologists about your new conspiracy discovery <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

VDOT yes. Ah yes - the G-force debate by the JREF goons - another fine bunch to align with <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

This has been dealt with ad nauseum...y errant altimeter, gets a big fat fail. But you go. Professional pilots doing the math vs 9-11 forum experts - its obvious who's got all the answers <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />

Where's the exit sign, if it's not a photochop? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I'm not sure - but if they're not photo chopped, then they're taken from 2 separate locations - which either way calls into question the stories about Lloyd's cab and the "disappearing" pole - the locations of which are noted in both of your pictures. There are several of those braced sign structures around the Pentagon area - here's another one:



- but let's look at one that you say is obscured by trees :


oops, if it's behind trees, it's not where it should be according to you original picture:


But wait - here it is:


And here it is again - peeking out over the ambulance like Kilroy:


This one looks like it might be the "grassy knoll" where the photographer was standing - ooops - I don't see the "EXIT" sign here either, unless that's it down low between the sign poles - in which case it's only missing in the photo above:


The problem with the math in your video is the same problem I have with the NTSB, or anyone who wants to attempt to reconstruct the flight path accurately...... it can't be done - and any assumptions made to plug numbers into formulaic calculations are likely in error from the beginning - so the resulting "opinion" will be faulty.... IOW, GIGO.



Yes, it is - nobody does.

But what I had to chuckle about in your video was seen in the opening graphics:



Maybe one day you'll get around to answering that for us..... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Frank