I am about 2 weeks away from finally doing a Starion turbo engine swap into my Raider. I was reading thru the Turbo bible making sure I'm not missing anything and I noticed some of you guys had different suggestions on which oil pump to use, the turbo pump w/ the truck pick-up or the truck pump. For instance, Charlie wrote that the Starion pump can be used with a "modified" truck pick-up, but he didn't describe what needs to be modified. I'm familiar with the turbo oil pump & pickup, but I haven't seen exactly how the truck oil pump & pick-up are set up.

The turbo engine I have is newly rebuilt (w/ a BSE kit) and I have a new truck oil pump, so I can confidently go with either set up. I just need some educated opinions on which way to go.

You want the truck pickup, and pump, and pan.

The starion pump lives up front, and has a pickup that extends to the mid section where a starion pump is. The Truck pump is twards the rear, and has a pickup that fits a truck pan.

Almost, but not quite.

The turbo pump has the pump inlet on the bottom of the pump, and the pickup orings into that.

The truck pump inlet comes from a block passage, and the pickup mounts on the other end of that passage to the block.

The turbo oil pan won't fit in the truck unless you knock a BIG dent in the side with a BFH, which tends to distort the gasket area.

The easiest solution is to use the truck pump, pan, and pickup. To use the starion pump and pickup in the truck pan, you must extend the pickup about 1" to get the right clearance to the bottom of the pan.

I think Charlie has stated that the turbo pump is better, but I'm not sure. I never had an issue with the truck pump, but I shimmed the pressure relief valve to get higher hot pressure. My shim was one flat washer under the spring, with the center hole hogged out with a drill bit to allow more flow for real cold oil. I also enlarged the bleed hole in the pump for the same reason. Beware! If you leave any chips in the relief piston bore, you will blow up stock mitsu oil filters, and they are tested to over 250psi. Don't ask how I know....

Thanks guys. I was thinking that maybe the turbo pickup could be slightly bent up or to the side, but if it involves extending it that's too much work.

One of the guys on Starquestclub claims that he has taken both pumps apart and internally they use the same exact gears, so the Starion pump probably doesn't perform any better.

The guts of the pump are only part of the equation. The resistance of the suction path is also quite important. The turbo pump is all smooth wall tube. The truck pump has a long section of rough wall casting. The latter will be markedly more inefficient, since both rely on ambient pressure on the surface of the oil in the sump to "push" the oil to the gears. This is a very small force, compared to the positive displacement of the pressure output.

I deal with this every time I design a pool pump system. I have to minimize the number of fittings in the suction piping, and use large enough pipe diameters in relationship to flow volumes and velocities.

I can't give you the exact effect, because I don't have a value of C for the casting and the tube, but the math is all in something called the Williams-Hazen formula ( at least that's the one for water - valiable viscosity oil may have a different formula).

The pickup mod ification is not all that difficult. Proceed thus: Place a wad of modelling clay in the truck pan under the pickup location and with the truck pickup installed, bolt on the pan. Measure the pickup-pan bottom clearance in the mashed clay. Install the turbo pump and pickup, and repeat the measurement. The diff between the two is the distance you need to extend the turbo pickup. Cut off the pickup from the pickup tube in the lower vertical section and weld in an extension tube of the calculated length. Pressure test for leaks in the weld, as any air leaks will be really nasty for the engine.

On my turbo motor I used the truck pickup. I did open up the passage in the block about .040" and smooth the sharp edges in the intersecting passages with a long piece of abrasive strip.

That said for my next motor I will probably go with the starion pump and pickup. Since I lowered my oil pan .75" using a giant aluminum spacer I'm sure there is plenty of room to rout the pickup tube.

And yes the gears are the same size on a Raider pump and that Starion pump.

Kevin