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Re: Brake and Idler Arm Advice [Re: Greg_Canada] #933090 02/27/09 03:39 AM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,160
ErikB Offline
Toyota Moderator
Quote

Do t100 brakes work on my style truck? might have to use them when i upgrade...


Yes, 4x4 T100 calipers and rotors will bolt right onto '86-95 4x4 trucks and 4runners. No other parts needed. The caliper bore size matches the "V6" style calipers on those trucks, and their associated master cylinder and booster.


'97 4Runner, '06 F350, '86 4Runner, '05 WR450
http://home.4x4wire.com/erik
Re: Brake and Idler Arm Advice [Re: ErikB] #933091 02/27/09 04:01 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,854
G
Greg_Canada Offline
Roll Me Over
Learn something new every day... awesome thanks guys... going to need those brakes when i get the s/c'd 3.4 under the hood <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


89 4Runner
3" BL, M/T locks, 33"bfg mt, bilstein, Kayline, tubebumper, toyotafiberglass panels
TBI: Elocker,3.4 w/ORS,b+b,S2Sstg2cams,arias pistons,P+P intake,TRDs/c,URDpullies+7th,downey headers,MAPECU2,WEGO WB, SupraMAF,walboro255,stg4clutch, EPaOo2 sim
Re: Brake and Idler Arm Advice [Re: Greg_Canada] #933092 02/27/09 04:42 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 981
C
CJMT100 Offline
Rock Warrior
TY Erik.


1996 T100, Mickey Thomson Classics, Bridgestone Dueler AT 265/75/16, custom offroad KC's.
Re: Brake and Idler Arm Advice [Re: Greg_Canada] #933093 02/27/09 11:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 658
wsquaredodie Offline
Rock Warrior
*****
Well, if you do go that way, look into the stuff I recommended. My setup is the best I ever drove..


trafdlo
Re: Brake and Idler Arm Advice [Re: wsquaredodie] #933094 03/02/09 06:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 63
C
Chip Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
This weekend I noticed that my idler arm was really sloppy too so I replaced it. I think the problem is that with the lift kit the angle of force is angled with respect to the axis of idler arm rotation. On stock trucks the angle is much shallower because the steering knuckle is higher with respect to the idler arm and pitman arm mounting locations.

It seems the best way to address this problem would be to have some sort of drop bracket for the idler arm and some sort of similar thing (whatever that may be) for the pitman arm.

Is there any sort of remedy like this available? I googled around and found many offset pitman arms for jeeps and an idler arm truss, but not what I think is needed.

Hope this isn't thread hijacking. It seemed the best place to ask.

Thanks in advance.

Chip

Re: Brake and Idler Arm Advice [Re: Chip] #933095 03/02/09 07:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 4,160
ErikB Offline
Toyota Moderator
You are correct that lifts that result in steeper A-arm and steering angles put different/higher loads on the idler arm and its bushings. The load becomes more of an up and down movement instead of just pushing back and forth pivoting it. This makes it easier to bend the arm and wears out the bushings faster. However, changing only the steering to correct this would create bump-steer and handling problems.

The tie rods must swing in the same arc as the A-arms, otherwise suspension movement will induce bump-steer (tire will turn as the suspension cycles). Most lift kits keep these angles the same in relation to each other.

This is the good thing about bracket lift kits- they pretty much keep A-arm, CV and steering angles stock and only the drive shaft angle changes.

T-bar and spacer lifts do the opposite- the drive shaft angle stays put but steering, A-arm and CV angles get steeper.


'97 4Runner, '06 F350, '86 4Runner, '05 WR450
http://home.4x4wire.com/erik
Re: Brake and Idler Arm Advice [Re: ErikB] #933096 03/02/09 08:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,854
G
Greg_Canada Offline
Roll Me Over
Mine is stock and still gets sloppy fast.


89 4Runner
3" BL, M/T locks, 33"bfg mt, bilstein, Kayline, tubebumper, toyotafiberglass panels
TBI: Elocker,3.4 w/ORS,b+b,S2Sstg2cams,arias pistons,P+P intake,TRDs/c,URDpullies+7th,downey headers,MAPECU2,WEGO WB, SupraMAF,walboro255,stg4clutch, EPaOo2 sim
Re: Brake and Idler Arm Advice [Re: ErikB] #933097 03/02/09 09:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 63
C
Chip Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
I'm not sure what a bracket vs. T bar kit is but I believe I have the bracket type. It's like on your (Erik's) web site where the beam complex that the lower A arms attach to is duplicated and plugs into the lower A arm attachment points. Additional ball joint spacers are then bolted on the top of the steering knuckle.

On my lift kit at least, the attachment points of the tie rods on the steering knuckles are lowered compared to stock because the additional distance between the A arms due to the lift is made up by putting spacers on top of the steering knuckles.

Re: Brake and Idler Arm Advice [Re: Chip] #933098 03/02/09 09:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 63
C
Chip Offline
Getting the Wheeling Fever
Additional thoughts --
I see what you mean about the bump steer. That's why the tie rod has 3 parts rather than just being solid. As the suspension cycles, the distance between the wheels changes due to the swinging of the A arms. With a solid tie rod the wheels would be pulled to toe-out or toe-in, depending on the situation.

It seems difficult at best to keep the "flatness" of the three piece tie rod at the stock level and lift the front end. If you put brackets under the idler arm to drop it, you have to do the same with the pitman arm or lower the steering box. It may be too much offset for the arm and to lower the steering box would be a nightmare due to steering shaft changes.

Re: Brake and Idler Arm Advice [Re: Chip] #933099 03/02/09 10:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 981
C
CJMT100 Offline
Rock Warrior
The only way I know of to fix the idler arm is to

A) Get the total chaos unit, which is 10x stronger or more than stuck and wont wear out. Although the angle results in the same steep one with a lift kit the unit is more robust and handles abuse more.

B) Downey Idler arm brace, which helps but spend the extra bit on the total chaos IA


1996 T100, Mickey Thomson Classics, Bridgestone Dueler AT 265/75/16, custom offroad KC's.
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