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Re: sputter'n [Re: BigJim] #961594 09/11/09 06:16 AM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,247
4x4Wire Offline
Trail Leader
***
Your left... my left...

Not that left, the other left...

If you are left, your are right or is it if you are right you are left???

I really like physical description (driver - passenger) rather than relative (left - right)...

Sorry, too much desert sun today....

So, have you change the fuel filter? I have seen many little stuttering problems disappear with new fuel filter.

89 Cherokee had an in-tank fuel filter (in addition to the external) that caused hesitation issues until replaced. Factory service said no service required. But, crud in gas does occur...


John Stewart
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Re: sputter'n [Re: tcoff] #961595 09/11/09 06:31 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 111
sunder Offline
Wheeler
Injectors are one of the most reliable parts on the car. Testing injectors takes some special tools (injector pulser, and fuel pressure gage), so does testing the signal to the injectors (noid light). If it seams to be having problems changing load conditions it could be a MAP or TPS. Checking the map sensor requires a vacuum pump and multimeter. Checking the TPS requires just a multimeter. IF one of those sensors is messed up and reporting an improper signal but not so far out of range to set a code, it will cause weird drivability problems. One kind of redneck mechanic approach to testing a sensor without the proper tools is to disconnect it. Disconneting a sensor will set the check engine light, but usually the computer will compensate to some degree in a "limp home" mode. I wouldn't recommend driving around for any length of time on a disconnected sensor, but it will give you a good idea if the sensor is bad.

For example. If you had a lazy MAP sensor that was not reporting a high enough voltage with no vacuum applied. It would cause the engine to stumble at WOT. If you disconnect the MAP sensor, the low speed drivability will go nuts, but under WOT, the engine would perform much better.

Unfortunately with this approach, you need to have a pretty good idea what is broken. If you start randomly unplugging sensors with out a rhyme or reason, the sensor you unplug may effect more than just what you are looking for.

For example, if you had a lazy O2 sensor that was tending lean and you unplugged the CTS not the O2 sensor, the computer would set a code and run in open loop operation. In open loop the computer would ignore the O2 sensor and run some basic programming that give decent performance. This in turn would cause the symptoms of a rich engine to go away. Not because you disconnected the bad sensor, but because you tripped the computer into running in a different mode.

Basically what I'm saying is, if you wanna try the backyard mechanic approach, be wary of the results and conclusions. That said If you wanna give it a go...

I'd disconnect the O2 sensor to start with. It will force the computer to run basic programming looking at the MAP, TPS, CTS, and CPS. It will set a check engine light, but it will not try and trim the fuel for best economy/emissions. If this helps it, you may wanna think about an O2 sensor. If it doesn't, it is probably one of the aforementioned sensors. In that case, based on the symptoms I'd try the TPS or MAP.

If you want to try it the cheap way, post your results. Otherwise, it may be time for a shop to check it out...

Either way good luck <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif" alt="" />


91 YJ
2 Seater Sand Rail
Handfull of other fun toys...
And a brand new, spit shined, B.S.
Oh, and a job to boot.
Re: sputter'n [Re: sunder] #961596 09/11/09 06:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 6,247
4x4Wire Offline
Trail Leader
***
That's why if it is computer controlled fuel injection, I take it to a shop and say I got a problem you need to fix....

There are getting to be too many sensors that interact and I do not have the equipment, desire or understanding of the inter-relationship to mess with it.


John Stewart
Editor - 4x4Wire.com
Editor - 4x4Voice
Editor - MUIRNet-News
President - BlueRibbon Coalition
Re: sputter'n [Re: 4x4Wire] #961597 09/11/09 08:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 326
T
tcoff Offline OP
Mudrunner
its my left of course <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/lol.gif" alt="" />

driver side is the left side where the leak is coming from.


99 wrangler sport, auto. 2.5 inch lift, 31 MTR's
Could be [Re: tcoff] #961598 09/11/09 09:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,768
BigJim Offline
Web Wheeler
It is a freeze plug. But I am inclined to think the leak is at the front of the engine and you just haven't looked good enough to find that ONE DROP exiting the engine.. Should take you all of five minutes to find, with a flashlight and a mirror, from UNDER the engine...
Big Jim


professional bovine relocation specialist
Re: sputter'n [Re: tcoff] #961599 09/12/09 02:24 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 306
M
MartySoCal Offline
Mudrunner
*****
Sunder gave some good advice on the sputtering portion of your problem. The most commonly failing sensor that will cause a hesitation is the TPS. Moisture can penetrate the seals and cause faulty, yet plauseable readings that may or may not throw a TPS code.

Did you have a chance to check for any stored codes? If you have any TPS/MAP rationality faults stored, a common fault I find with '99 TJ's is that the 5V power supply to both these sensors also powers the speed control switch pod in the steering wheel. The clockspring for the airbag and horn wiring also carries wiring for the speed control switches, even it your TJ doesn't have speed control. The clockspring shorts out the 5V to ground and the sensors loose their power supply. A simple test is to unplug the black wire connector for the clockspring and see if the fault goes away. (Note: Don't unplug the yellow connector, on the clockspring, it is for the air bag) You will need to remove the lower steering column cover half to access the connector. If the fault comes right back when you reconnect the connector, replace the clockspring.

Here's one method of testing the TPS without a scan tool:

If you have a digital multimeter you can backprobe the TPS connector's center terminal (orange with a dark blue striped wire) and check the sensor return voltage at idle (closed throttle). It should be steady, Minimum volts is .26 Volt, max is .95 Volt, normally, it's between about .65V to about .80 volt DC. With the throttle closed, the voltage should not change with the engine at idle. With the engine turned off, key on, the voltage reading should smoothly climb as you open the throttle wide slowly by hand to around 4 volts or so. The volts at WOT should never be over 4.49 Volts DC. The other two wires in the connector are the 5V feed and the ground. If the voltage on the sensor output circuit are off, check for voltage drop and continuity to the battery ground from the brown/yellow stripe wire, the orange wire should have 5V on it with the key on. If you have a good ground, with no 5 Volt reference, suspect the clockspring as described above.

If the voltage on the sensor return circuit reads something like 1.5V at idle and/or skips around as you sweep the throttle, replace the TPS.

Like Big Jim said, most likely you have a seeping freeze plug causing the coolant smell and leak. Hopefully, that's all it is!

Re: sputter'n [Re: MartySoCal] #961600 09/12/09 04:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 326
T
tcoff Offline OP
Mudrunner
thanks for the tips, i haven't had a chance to bring it in to get the back codes read. but the last time the check engine light came on it was the o2, about 6 months ago. the only other thing that has come up on the instrument panel was the word "no bus" on the milage reader. but i'll try the volt meter approach.

as for the coolant i'll see if i can get somone to help me look for it. there is just so much crap in the way....i hope all it is, is a freeze plug...


99 wrangler sport, auto. 2.5 inch lift, 31 MTR's
Re: sputter'n [Re: tcoff] #961601 09/12/09 06:23 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 111
sunder Offline
Wheeler
Sometimes when O2 sensors go out (I.E. stuck center/lean/rich) they give erroneous readings before they tend towards the wrong reading. I guess the next question is... Does the jeep do this cold, or warm, or both. If it is sputtering only warm (Closed loop) then it may just be a bad O2 sensor. If it does it cold/both, then it is a basic sensor used in both open and closed loop (MAP,CPS).


91 YJ
2 Seater Sand Rail
Handfull of other fun toys...
And a brand new, spit shined, B.S.
Oh, and a job to boot.
Re: sputter'n [Re: sunder] #961602 09/13/09 03:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 326
T
tcoff Offline OP
Mudrunner
do u mean tps? or the cps? only because the tps was mentioned prev. but to answer the question, it will start right up and if i let it idle it'll start to sputter in about a minute. but if i start to drive, it may or may not sputter until a mile or two down the road. if i make it a couple miles down the road to the store lets say with no sputter, then it will when i get back in to leave. as soon as i hit the main road.

so weather permitting i will do the compression test and the volt meter with the tps tomorrow. but one question i'm looking through my repair manual and it doesnt say where these sensors are. i have a basic idea but not exactly sure, can anyone give me a hint. thanks...


99 wrangler sport, auto. 2.5 inch lift, 31 MTR's
Re: sputter'n [Re: tcoff] #961603 09/13/09 05:00 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 111
sunder Offline
Wheeler
Sorry, Typo; TPS. The TPS is on the throttle body, with a 4 wire connector. The MAP sensor is on the firewall above the valve cover, it has a three wire connector.

It sounds like the jeep will do it warm or cold. That rules out a bad O2 sensor. A bad O2 sensor would only do it hot.
I'd start with the TPS and the MAP sensors, then go from there. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/kewl.gif" alt="" />


91 YJ
2 Seater Sand Rail
Handfull of other fun toys...
And a brand new, spit shined, B.S.
Oh, and a job to boot.
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