Yup. I will second that. In my past experince a balljoint flip resulted in numerous bent steering idler arms, tierods, and so on.

You get tired of replacing idler arms after a few. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/shiner.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I likey. I have the gen2 UCA's ready to put on my Raider so might as well get these too. I replied to the link above for purchasing info.

This is not a balljoint flip. That will kill your tierods and cv's.

See my post above regarding tapering the spacer to avoid ruining the front end susp angles.

Tapered or not has no effect either on CV joint angle or tie road angle. Those are affected by increased down travel only.

Taper only affects upper ball joint binding angle but I don't believe any had problem with that.

Ball joint flip is same has same affect as spacer less thickness of the spacer.

Now the part that concerns me the most is that taper. Taper implies that original mounting surface of upper ball joint (top of A-arm) are no longer parallel to ball joint mounting flange. That means that you are bolting together non-parallel surfaces which is big no-no because it creates bending momentum on bolt. They are not designed for that. Bolts are designed to work against tension or/and shear not bending.

Hypothetically you could remedy that with another tapered ring underneath ball-joint but whole point of having taper is questionable IMHO.

I'm really not into product bashing but tinkering with suspension is very serious matter. Yes it worked on your truck but none can guarantee that it's not because of luck or just the fact that you didn't subject it to enough stress.

When you do mod to your own truck it's one thin once you start selling those to open public it's whole different matter. In our litigation happy society you always need to think of the worst.

Alex, look at the link below.

Toyo and Isuzu owner's have been using these since the 80's.

There are 5 companies selling these spacers for Pajero's (Montero JDM spec) in the UK/Australia for the past decade.

If balljoint spacers are as bad as you claim, then there wouldn't be 4x4 companies selling them as a genuine product.

You seem adamant about really bashing this thread, so as a gesture of good faith, I'll send you a set for free and you can see for yourself.

Toasty will get a set as well since he's been modding like crazy since the begging of time.

Both you guys shoot me a PM with your mailing address and I'll ship them out tuesday when I'm down in Seattle.

If you don't like them, ship them back. If you like them, then you can decide whether to pay for them like everyone else or keep them.

The slight taper is there to provide a flush mating surface with between the now raised a-arm and the balljoint. If the taper was not there, then the flat surface would push the balljoint outwards.

I would ship them with a disclaimer that is standard for suspension aftermarket components sold around the world.

Examples of balljoint spacers sold here :

http://www.4crawler.com/4x4/ForSale/BallJointSpacer.shtml

Disclaimer :

4Crawler Offroad assumes the buyer to be the final manufacturer of his or her vehicle. Use this product at your own risk. 4Crawler Offroad assumes no responsibility for any damages of any conceivable sort to anything caused or not caused by this product.

Alex's point is this, where the bolt head or nut contacts a mating surface will be at an angle. (edited to a surface)

As the bolt is tensioned the loading under the head of the bolt will only be applied on one side of the bolts head. That will result in a very high stress and is a possible failure point.

The failure could be either the fasteners loosen or the head breaks off.

The correct engineering solution is to either spot face the mating surface ( assuming its thick enough) on the ball joint or sperical washer set.

web page

Kevin

I'll draw a simple layman's explanation out for you two.

The bolt head does not come in contact with the top of the spacer. It comes in contact with the top side of the upper a-arm.

News flash : the balljoint moves. Keep reading ...

When the a-arm is lifted 3/4" the angle changes in relation to the top of balljoint in it's original location. That angle difference is the taper.

If the taper was not there, the balljoint would be pushed outwards.

Obviously a drawing is needed to explain to you both.

I didn't expect this from you guys.

You make something that has been an aftermarket product for years overseas for the same vehicle and you get bashed for it.

Thanks

First off I wouldn't get my panties bunched up about people who are experienced in the feild, and engineers(KevinC) questioning you about your product. It seems like they're asking for explanations, and not bashing your spacers.

Personally, I do not have a full comprehension of the system that is being modified, so I Really can't make a judgment one way or the other. It's going to take pictures, diagrams, or some other way for me to understand what loads are where, and if this is an acceptable (safe) modification.

Balljoint spacers are old in the IFS world.

They have been used on Toyo's, Isuzu's and Montero (JDM) for years.

The taper is there to keep the balljoint aligned and from pushing outwards. This keeps the alignment in it's stock form.

I'm not an engineer, nor an alignment expert.

These are a direct copy of one's that are sold from shops in the UK and Australia.

I've tried three different one's before settling on these and making a cnc batch.

Google is your friend. Balljoint spacers, montero, delica, pajero, mitsubishi, toyota, etc... will give you all the answer you are looking for.

Like I said before, I got these done because at $150 + shipping from UK or Oz is too expensive for my taste.

Not bashing,

Just trying to understand your design and possibly help.

Best case, I just misunderstood your desing.

OK Case... You may need to use a special wsher under one side of the fasteners.

Worst case.... It's wrong and there is a problem that causes a failure.

Would you feel better if I was not sure about something and didnt say anything?

Kevin