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 Gen II brake master cyl swap- why?
#981615
01/19/10 09:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 111
OP
Wheeler
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I read somewhere (now I cant find it <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />), that changing out ones Gen I brake master to a Gen II was recommended. Really? can anyone tell me why?
I would also like to know what is required to change to Gen II disks, front and rear, besides wrenches.
Tanks!
"We don?t need more health insurance, we need health ASSURANCE" Dr. Douglas Graham. http://curezone.com/90 Montero LWB 4D56 2.5 TDI, AT with OD, dual bouncy seats, H4 headlights, hellas, bull bar, 32" Wranglers and about to get some LEGS! 2001 Yamaha WR-426
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Re: Gen II brake master cyl swap- why?
[Re: radish150]
#981616
01/19/10 09:32 PM
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,132
Trail Leader
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I did it as an upgrade on my 1987 4 cly's brake system.
I changed to larger diameter mater cyl one from a V6 model. Also my original one was cast iron and the replacement was aluminum. Looks better , wont rust and saves a little weight.
The larger cylinder also gives better pedal feel / faster take up. When combined with the V6 brake booster you get a lot better stopping. I don't recommend just swapping the master cylinder, swap the booster to.
That's why I swapped mine. On a 1990 Turbo Diesel, not a clue what an upgrade would be.
Kevin
87 Turbo Intercooled Raider, roller cam, torsen rear diff, LSD front diff, lockup auto with modified converter, V6 brakes, low transfer case gears...
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Re: Gen II brake master cyl swap- why?
[Re: Kevin C]
#981617
01/19/10 09:39 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 435
Mudrunner
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From Gen-I Brake brake problem My dad ( 4ePajero ) has put gen2 and gen3 parts in his car Have a look here for his build ( DiD engine into gen1 ) http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/showthread.php?t=30425Part of it was the brake upgrade - see below ( also found on the thread above ) Brakes: Not that there is anything wrong with the Pajero's brakes, the following factors convinced me to upgrade the front brakes on the Pajero: * 33" tyres fitted (vs 29" standard) equates to nearly 15% reduction in effective braking effort, due to the longer arm on the moment. * heavy loads I carry when over-landing * general standard of driving in the rural Eastern Cape demands quick stops! * crystal ball shows either an off-road trailer or off-road caravan in our future * it's a Mitsu, so it should be easy! After reading a few threads on the 4x4Wire forum, it became clear that upgrading from the Gen1's smallish single piston calipers to the Gen2's 2-pot calipers is a bolt-on conversion! Typical Mitsu! The only required modification is to trim the dust shield with a tin-snips / small grinder. The first step was to get a pair of Gen2 front calipers. Our friend Martin / Gert at Parthunt came to the party and supplied a pair of brand new calipers with disk pads for R1200-00 ( $140 ) (that's not much more than the prices quoted on South African forums for some vehicles' disk pads). 2¢ hrs to do the swap! Amazing that parts off a 1999 Pajero bolts straight onto a 1984 design ! (mine is 1989, but the Gen1s were virtually unchanged from 1984 - 1990) Most of the time taken was for preparation, placing Paj on trestles, wheels off and tidying up. Simple bolt-on. I just had to trim the dust shield a touch with a tin-snips. Master cylinder: As a matter of principle, I replaced the brake master cylinder kit as well. The first one lasted 20 yrs and 325 000 kms, s I might as well! I could not find the kit for the Gen1 Mitsu, but found out that Nissan copied the design for their Maxima / Skyline & 1-tonner master cylinders , so that provided the kit rubbers. For the record, I used the Spirex kit FED.SX 7926X Looking at the pics again, I think I will fit new rotors (disks) shortly. The new calipers: ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/4ePajero/Di-D/Gen2Calipersb.jpg) The old: ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/4ePajero/Di-D/TheOldb.jpg) The new: ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/4ePajero/Di-D/TheNewb.jpg)
 Karma's Law - For every action there is a multiplied reaction! 93 Pajero GLS 3.0 V6 LWB - SOLD 2001 Gen3 Di-D LWB - SOLD 2005 Touareg R5 2.5 TDi
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Re: Gen II brake master cyl swap- why?
[Re: radish150]
#981618
01/19/10 11:06 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 7,356
Trail Leader
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That all covers his fronts, but what about the rears?
Radish, do you have a coil or leaf rear end? Not sure what exact Gen II models you have rolling around down there. Up here, the easiest routes (as in near bolt ups) are to swap a bigger SR rear with a locker into a Gen I coils sprung. And an earlier Montero Sport (Challenger in OZ, and elsewhere?) with locker into a leaf sprung. Both are as close to bolt in as it gets. There are many past threads on them.
Big Truck: 00, 3.5, Endeavor, 5-Spd drive line in hand! Little Truck: 87, 2.6T I/C, MT, LSDs, Tonneau Top Her Truck: 03, 3.8, 20th Anniv, 65k Daughter's: 06 Eclipse, Keeping it Mitsu! FSMs: MitsubishiLinks.com
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Re: Gen II brake master cyl swap- why?
[Re: MontyMcV]
#981619
01/19/10 11:10 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 6,211
Trail Leader
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MMcV, you may have forgotten to mention that the reason he would want to swap his entire rear end is because those rears you mentioned have disc brakes.
John B.
'87 Raider 2.6 Turbo Auto, Under Construction
'95 Montero SR, 35x12.5/15 BFG M/T KM-2's, Rock sliders, Qtr panel chop, gas tank lift, 2" BL, Aisins, 5.29s
'95 Pajero Mini
'98 Montero Winter Ed.
'04 Cadillac XLR
'03 Kawasaki ZRX1200R
'60 Ford Falcon 4Dr
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Re: Gen II brake master cyl swap- why?
[Re: radish150]
#981620
01/20/10 01:53 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,649
Roll Me Over
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I read somewhere (now I cant find it <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />), that changing out ones Gen I brake master to a Gen II was recommended. Really? can anyone tell me why?
I would also like to know what is required to change to Gen II disks, front and rear, besides wrenches.
Tanks! The Gen I 3.0L and the Gen II master cylinder are the same.
Michael j
TreadLightly! Trainer
Grasscat III, 1994 Gen 2 Five speed, Stock ( for a little while )
GrassCat II, 1998 Gen 2.5 Locked and loaded. Ran off with Hector.
GrassCat I, 1991 Gen 1 Ran off with Justice.
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Re: Gen II brake master cyl swap- why?
[Re: Grasscat]
#981621
01/20/10 02:01 AM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 4,628
Roll Me Over
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I read somewhere (now I cant find it <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />), that changing out ones Gen I brake master to a Gen II was recommended. Really? can anyone tell me why?
I would also like to know what is required to change to Gen II disks, front and rear, besides wrenches.
Tanks! The Gen I 3.0L and the Gen II master cylinder are the same. That's right Michael. But, he has the 2.5 diesel like the Canucks got. It's also a LWB. So, my guess is that it would have at least the V6 gas M/C as opposed to the 4 banger gas M/C. Therefore, no benefit from swapping, other than getting a newer part on there.
Fasteddy's advice is occasionally sound...
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Re: Gen II brake master cyl swap- why?
[Re: hazy_daze]
#981622
01/20/10 05:59 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 775
Rock Warrior
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Just did the turbo swap and have the go fast but now im looking at breaking. This 2 piston set up worth the swap if I do the gen 2 master/Booster as well? I did the pricing
I can get two new ones for around 120$
2003 limited 20 year anniversary
96 SR
87 Montero SWB=Turbo diesel 4BT
T19 4sd with 205 transfer case
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Re: Gen II brake master cyl swap- why?
[Re: 87monty]
#981623
01/20/10 07:44 AM
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,132
Trail Leader
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On your 87 you need to swap the rotors and the dust shields.
I strongly recommend the booster swap master cyl swap on the 87. You can also put in larger rear wheel cylinders in the back to better match the fronts. Try the ones from a 89 V6.
Kevin
87 Turbo Intercooled Raider, roller cam, torsen rear diff, LSD front diff, lockup auto with modified converter, V6 brakes, low transfer case gears...
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Re: Gen II brake master cyl swap- why?
[Re: 4ePikanini]
#981624
01/20/10 08:11 AM
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 6,132
Trail Leader
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To put some numbers to the swap:
The tires 29 to 33 tire swap reduces the stopping torque by 13.8%, the calipers increase the front brake torque by 11.1%
The stock caliper piston for the single piston calipers for a 1990 V6 has a diameter of 2.246".
The four piston units for a 1997 3.5 L Montero has 1.684" pistons and an area of 2.23 in sq X2 (two pistons) or 4.45 sq in.
The single 2.246" piston has an area of 3.95 sq in.
Kevin
87 Turbo Intercooled Raider, roller cam, torsen rear diff, LSD front diff, lockup auto with modified converter, V6 brakes, low transfer case gears...
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